2500hd gasser

KARNUT · April 2, 2025

4 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

Those were unique and popular units that some farms made use of, certainly cattle operations. While I don't recall seeing a unit set up for the work you describe around here, its possible they existed and never noticed them. Tracked skid steers became the big thing with what might be a similar attachment to mow down smaller trees and so forth and then larger more dedicated type units for the same purpose. But back to the 276 for example as I looked up the spec on that with the front end loader, two of those in weight is what this guy was hauling in weight total on one of the trailers and I don't know how that was any legal load.

Skid steer tractors are very popular as an entry level type clearing machine with that type of attachment. The one pictured is modified by replacing the 4clyinder with a 6cylinder.

Edited April 2, 2025 by KARNUT

Chuck FB · April 2, 2025

3 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Skid steer tractors are very popular as an entry level type clearing machine with that type of attachment. The one pictured is modified by replacing the 4clyinder with a 6cylinder.

That photo doesn't appear to be working. Yes the skid steer of whatever brand would be the baby unit also for that type of work, we've had what amounts to a logging skidder with a mower unit that churned up the ground like a rotovator go under powerlines in the farm yard. They have steel tracked units that are based off of D6 or D7 etc but all of that becomes insanely expensive to run or hire to do a job like that and hauled on a tridem semi trailer and definitely not "yard" friendly to the lawn in a yard !.

lineman1234 · April 2, 2025

4 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Skid steer tractors are very popular as an entry level type clearing machine with that type of attachment. The one pictured is modified by replacing the 4clyinder with a 6cylinder.

Im not sure that qualifies as a skid steer, as it steers by the turning of wheels.

Edited April 2, 2025 by lineman1234

KARNUT · April 2, 2025

26 minutes ago, lineman1234 said:

Im not sure that qualifies as a skid steer, as it steers by the turning of wheels.

I figured the difference was seamless. The picture is a modified 276 versatile. I thought I was clear in explaining that skid steers basically replaced them as enter level clearing machines. Actually the wheels don’t turn the tractor cylinders push the tractors center to turn.

Lpfm1990 · April 2, 2025

10 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

Very good question and like a lot of things manufactured through large corporations it can be difficult to determine what is changed on an assembly as its almost like they don't want to share that information.

And going back to your original question of what is the better pickup choice, Ford or GM were the ones you highlighted. What worried me about the Ford were the valve train failures that the 7.3 was having and that went on for quite a while and cooled my interest. I "think" they have resolved that with increasing the oil pump flow and not sure if substandard lifter or cam material was part of the problem or not as I never did hear a full explanation of the whole issue. Also that high speed steering wobble issue that plagued trucks randomly didn't excite me, that went on for years and that may have been resolved but really never have heard one way or the other. A nephew had a 2018 3/4 ton with the gas 6.2 and very early on he had high speed wobble multiple times and was into Ford numerous times for that, also he said the ride was pretty horrendous ( compared to his Ram 2500 ) and I've had a demo of that vintage of truck compared to a GM on pothole roads and I certainly preferred the GM although I realize the front end of a GM is not as tough. Ford was having some issues with their 10 speed but I think they have addressed that. The aluminum body would have its good points or so I think when it comes to corrosion but costs to repair tend to be a fair bit higher so both have their pluses for sure. I can't say I am all that thrilled about direct fuel injection though due to the complexity and potential increase in fuel dilution over port injection. I had not gotten to the stage of test driving the Ford and wouldn't have beat on it anyway to realize the power difference but that makes sense the Ford with its larger engine would have more power if that was high on the list of wants. Ford has gear ratio options available, something that GM just doesn't offer. Price wise at the time I priced them out with similar options or tried to, Ford locally wasn't into giving deals and the MSRP was higher on at least what I was comparing with the Ford so the dollars were swaying me to a Chev ( the main GM dealer was pulling an above MSRP stunt out of the blue so they were kicked out of the picture ). I'm sure either brand smashes up quite nicely with a head on with a moose or the insane amount of deer we have though !.

Msrp to msrp ford is a good 4-5k higher, and I didn’t think about this till later. I have a friend who works at a local gm plant, which means I can get the gm’s friends and family plan, which is a good chunk off, so I can pick up a lt trailboss with heated seats and all, for the price of an STX xl ford, so equipment wise there’s a huge difference. Death wobble I’ve heard about in the rams, but never had it happen on either the hemi or Cummins 3500’s I had prior, never have driven a ford, but definitely have seen plenty of reports of it happening, and both the ford and Chevy I’m looking at have 3.73’s, the 4.30’s would killllll any chance of fuel mileage

Chuck FB · April 2, 2025

5 hours ago, Lpfm1990 said:

Msrp to msrp ford is a good 4-5k higher, and I didn’t think about this till later. I have a friend who works at a local gm plant, which means I can get the gm’s friends and family plan, which is a good chunk off, so I can pick up a lt trailboss with heated seats and all, for the price of an STX xl ford, so equipment wise there’s a huge difference. Death wobble I’ve heard about in the rams, but never had it happen on either the hemi or Cummins 3500’s I had prior, never have driven a ford, but definitely have seen plenty of reports of it happening, and both the ford and Chevy I’m looking at have 3.73’s, the 4.30’s would killllll any chance of fuel mileage

It sounds like you've picked through the website process for GM and Ford and put together a representation of what your after for options to have an idea on a cost comparison MSRP wise. I really would encourage you to try them both out though if possible, as I expect you have heard comments about some not liking the GM seats as they are firm and the Ford is soft, power pedals are not an option on any level of GM HD truck on this platform and some may desire that, or the power tilt/telescope steering is not available on most if not maybe all of the GM HD trucks ( but is on the half ton GM ). Steering feel, one like my High Country has some sort of digital assist steering, a lower end HD does not ( never tried the other to know if it felt different ). Its nice if one can try out both trucks on the same route that has bumps etc, turns and even backing up to see what your visibility is like out the windows, the camera system and so on. Oh and how the hood/vision seems from the drivers seat as the GM sure has its nose up to the front end so no sloped off front of the hood to see as close. My mind was fairly set on a GM product from the beginning, however I was trying to get a feel from reviews as to if lets say the Ford was such a superior product for example rather than bury my head completely. Should I have test driven a current Ford, I should have but the fact is the Ford dealer didn't seem to have much of anything ... actually nothing in the way of the truck I would be after that had the 7.3 so driving around in a diesel sure wasn't going to tell me all that I would want to get a feel for on a test drive.

Certainly your "in" with GM as a company will help make a better deal, only if a Ford dealership was really hungry and willing to give a proper deal on top of a factory discount. And if you are trading, I would tend to think that is easier to deal with the same brand.

And yes, as to my nephews complaints they were not helping matters LOL, and it takes some ... a lot actually, to get that guy scared as his hobby is to climb up extreme steep walls of snow in the Rockies with modified sleds and "high mark" but it rattled him when he had more than one bad high speed wobble event on a section of road that he could have easily gone over an embankment or had a head on with a semi. I believe the Cat dealership he worked for for those number of years had bought 6 of the same 2018 Ford F250 crew cab short box and all were gas. Two of them fairly early on got into this horrific highs speed wobble issue and many steering shocks and so on were thrown at them by Ford and with his truck they replaced the front hub unit bearing assemblies at 30000 miles, then they replaced them again at 60000 miles. At 70000 miles he handed in his truck because he decided to go back to more of a hands on oilfield job but ironically after he drops the truck off at the dealership they found worn steering components "finally" and had a nice list of items to replace and my guess is because it was now off warranty !. Never once through the time he was a driver of it from day one of the trucks life did the dealership take an initiative to see if they could increase the caster some which I think is one of the issues as for some reason they have so little caster dialed into them. They always claimed it was within spec, throw on another steering shock as the last one got weak from the abuse and out the door they would send him. This is typical dealership and manufacturer tactics no matter the brand, try to do as little as possible, deny anything is wrong and get that vehicle past the warranty so they are no longer on the hook for the repairs.

Has Ford made any design changes, I guess that is where some inside knowledge through knowing a ford tech or Ford forums to see what thrills they are dealing with. I don't mean to sound like I am bashing Ford, they all have their issues and GM is not sitting on a pedestal either, if they were there wouldn't be much to talk about on forums like this.

My truck I bought this winter, I special ordered it but had not pushed that hard to try and get a test drive prior as again they didn't seem to have much in the way of an HD with a gas engine either and don't want to dedicate a truck to be a demo unit unless they feel forced to do so. The truck came, I tried it and I figured it felt like I thought I could live with it so ... I said yes and completed the deal, my truck was my test drive demo.

The 4.30, that would shine as far as the larger tire theme, and seems a Ford can fit 37" without any mods I think so if one was into big tires and wanted factory gearing that would complement that theme, that's where the Tremor HD stands out with its extra lift and lower gearing. Of course all of that eats up fuel, certainly with a gas engine truck.

Edited April 2, 2025 by Chuck FB

Ry Guy · April 3, 2025

I haven't heard much if any complaints about death wobble in the 2020+ trucks. Was definitely an issue pre-2020.

Chuck FB · April 3, 2025

32 minutes ago, Ry Guy said:

I haven't heard much if any complaints about death wobble in the 2020+ trucks. Was definitely an issue pre-2020.

That's interesting, it was a number of years that it was an issue that more than just a few had struggled with. Someone who has been in the Ford dealership scene in parts and service may have some clues as to what changed if so, be that parts or a geometry change or both. Hopefully they have addressed that as its a serious issue when it happens.

revrnd · April 4, 2025

On 4/1/2025 at 8:38 PM, Chuck FB said:

There were various engines that got transplanted into pickups back in those days, since my dads truck was a two wheel drive it did not have the suspension that could be lifted like a sold axle 4x4 to stuff a larger engine into and that shop wasn't doing that anyway. So what they were using was a Isuzu inline 6 engine that I believe had some industrial applications and would have been built in Japan and is around 350 to 360 cubic inches I think, unfortunately at that time it was a naturally aspirated engine and not made to withstand being cranked up with larger injectors and a turbo as that model engine had no under piston oil squirters. However my dad had a turbo added to it not too long after without changing the fuel and that helped a lot, most definitely at altitude. What the engine was mated to was the stock 4 speed standard transmission and I suspect that shop either was making an adapter or such was sourced. Right off the bat when my dad bought the truck he installed a 3 speed auxiliary transmission behind the main transmission that would have come out of a lighter tandem axle truck and was re-bearinged. However those transmissions are non syncro and as truckers would refer to them as the hunt and crash transmission. It takes skill and practice to drive that truck and effectively it has 12 forward gears, the three speed gave it an underdrive/direct/overdrive. By todays standards that truck is extremely underpowered but never the less somehow for a while there my dad was towing a triple axle 38 foot fifth wheel from Arizona to northern Washington state, I bet that was a thrill to struggle with on the highway.

The good ole 350 Olds diesel, that's another story as my dad talked my brother into buying a new 1980 Chev with what turned out to be as you well know, a shitpile of an engine and he literally gave it away some years later as their resale value went to crap for good reason. It didn't even have that many miles on it and the injectors were replaced at least once and then crapping out again as it would run rough and spit black gunk out of the tailpipe. That engine sure damaged GM's diesel reputation until the 6.2 came out and proved itself although it was no powerhouse either and then like you said the 6.5 turbo came out and it had decent power for the day, its issue was that electronic fuel injection system that would crap out .. a few friends had owned them. Where my dad went to get the turbo installed on his one ton in the states as it was anything but a drop in installation, I don't recall the name of the person that owned that shop but he was big in the diesel world at the time ( no it wasn't Banks but another very smart person ) , and GM had consulted him as an outside expert with their plans of using the 350 olds block and building a diesel out of that. He told GM, DO NOT BUILD IT ... and you know the rest of the story LOL.

Other engines I recall my dad talking about were certain Detroit two cycles being put into pickups and he personally saw and talked to an owner of a pickup ( and that was a 4x4 ) of a guy who had stuffed a 3208 Cat into it, looking up the weight of the engine I see 1800 pounds ... anyway in later years Cat cranked more and more power out of that engine and yet now Ford for example has just surpassed the hp and torque of what the last of the Cat 3208 engines built were putting out. That shows the technology of the high pressure fuel system and multi firing injectors and the turbo system that has progressed since the late 1990's. Highway tractors years ago didn't have near the power that current diesel pickups have !

The story I heard back in the day from my father who worked in the tooling office @ the Oshawa Truck Plant was that GM wanted a diesel. Chevrolet said they would design & build 1 from the ground up & Oldsmobile said they'd just rework their 350 gasser.

On a side note, I was an apprentice toolie in the Oshawa Car Plsnt for a stretch in 1983. On of the 1st tools I made was for setting the throttle adjustment on an Olds V6 diesel that was going to be used. We were building Impalas/Parisennes in Plant 1 & I think getting ready to build Celebrities & 6000s in Plant 2, so I'm not exactly sure which body those Olds engines were going into. I dont seem to remember seeing many out @ the start of either Motor Line where they were 'scheduled' by production either. They were a metallic colour (gold or green?) vs the corporate GM blue of the gassers.

Chuck FB · April 4, 2025

6 hours ago, revrnd said:

The story I heard back in the day from my father who worked in the tooling office @ the Oshawa Truck Plant was that GM wanted a diesel. Chevrolet said they would design & build 1 from the ground up & Oldsmobile said they'd just rework their 350 gasser.

On a side note, I was an apprentice toolie in the Oshawa Car Plsnt for a stretch in 1983. On of the 1st tools I made was for setting the throttle adjustment on an Olds V6 diesel that was going to be used. We were building Impalas/Parisennes in Plant 1 & I think getting ready to build Celebrities & 6000s in Plant 2, so I'm not exactly sure which body those Olds engines were going into. I dont seem to remember seeing many out @ the start of either Motor Line where they were 'scheduled' by production either. They were a metallic colour (gold or green?) vs the corporate GM blue of the gassers.

I did not realize they had developed a v6 diesel, I have a feeling that never got very far and if it had any issues like the 350 diesel, I assume the scrapped it and that was that. The 350 version used what had been the distributor drive/oil pump drive to now drive the oil pump and I think it was a hex shaft they used and not sure if it was brass or steel but apparently that hex shaft would round out at some point and when that happened the oil pump would stop turning and things would go south really fast at that point. So that was something at the time which was talked about and to inspect for wear and replace it before the wear was critical. A naturally aspirated diesel with no power and a steaming pile of crap to boot, GM took a real ****** kicking on that mess.

Ford comes out with the 6.9 and I drove a guys truck in the mid 80's with one of those pulling a gooseneck trailer at the time on a tree slashing job and by todays standards its not powerful but it had nice low end torque that the 350 certainly didn't have and seemed pretty nice for the time and no doubt Ford sales jumped with their offering and GM scrambling to catch up with the 6.2.

revrnd · April 4, 2025

44 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

I did not realize they had developed a v6 diesel, I have a feeling that never got very far and if it had any issues like the 350 diesel, I assume the scrapped it and that was that. The 350 version used what had been the distributor drive/oil pump drive to now drive the oil pump and I think it was a hex shaft they used and not sure if it was brass or steel but apparently that hex shaft would round out at some point and when that happened the oil pump would stop turning and things would go south really fast at that point. So that was something at the time which was talked about and to inspect for wear and replace it before the wear was critical. A naturally aspirated diesel with no power and a steaming pile of crap to boot, GM took a real ****** kicking on that mess.

Ford comes out with the 6.9 and I drove a guys truck in the mid 80's with one of those pulling a gooseneck trailer at the time on a tree slashing job and by todays standards its not powerful but it had nice low end torque that the 350 certainly didn't have and seemed pretty nice for the time and no doubt Ford sales jumped with their offering and GM scrambling to catch up with the 6.2.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_engine

Sounds like it wasn't used too long in the W cars we were building @ the time.

Chuck FB · April 4, 2025

26 minutes ago, revrnd said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_engine

Sounds like it wasn't used too long in the W cars we were building @ the time.

That was an interesting article as it talks about some of the issues they had and certainly the warning not to build the original design. My brothers pickup, he had a Racor fuel water separating filter put on it right off the bat but that didn't prevent the injectors from crapping out. They sure kicked out some major power back in the day, put two dirt bikes in the back of an empty pickup and that made a noticeable difference in it dogging along as it struggled to climb a 7% grade at any sort of speed and my brother was not happy with his purchase that our dad pushed him into buying.

Lpfm1990 · April 5, 2025

And pulled the trigger on the trailboss, picking it up next Saturday, just gotta finish up the paperwork with my credit union. Runs and shifts a ton smoother then my 6.2 trailboss, felt so much more at home back in the hd truck

Chuck FB · April 5, 2025

6 minutes ago, Lpfm1990 said:

And pulled the trigger on the trailboss, picking it up next Saturday, just gotta finish up the paperwork with my credit union. Runs and shifts a ton smoother then my 6.2 trailboss, felt so much more at home back in the hd truck

So did you drive through a Ford dealership to pretend you looked at them before heading to the Chev dealership LOL. That's interesting about the 1/2 ton with the 6.2 shifting harder and running rougher ( rougher is the word I used but that might not be the characteristic ). I have to wonder if the dynamic fuel management makes it sound odd when idling or driving easier where it would engage the system. I never did have a ride in my friends 2023 1/2 ton with the 6.2 to hear it or feel the ride but I imagine it has a nice ride, he likes the truck so far anyway but again a smaller trailer being pulled the few times he uses it during the summer. His is a crew cab with the 6.6 box as so many of the 1/2 tons I see around are the 5.5 box. His also has the trailering package.

Of a side note, because of the dual rear exhaust on his truck, he had one of those street sweepers as I call it on the hitch to keep rocks from flying up onto the trailer and the exhaust promptly ruined the plastic bristles, melted them to crap behind the exhaust outlets. So then he put a rubber belting unit on and it caused the heat to reflect back to the bumper and started melting the PPF that had been applied to the pained bumper ( its a High Country ). So he went to a muffler shop and they cut off the piping but left the outlets where they are mounted so it looks the same and then had a single tail pipe that curves around out the passenger side like a traditional exhaust was normally routed. I don't know what the gas HD would be like in that way as its coming out the corner so it might be an issue for one of those trailer protectors.

You can dive into your new trucks features/options after you have it in your hands, it will be very interesting to hear how it compares once you have had a chance to use it doing some towing.

Chuck FB · April 6, 2025

It just occurred to me because of purchasing a new vehicle and having already read comments on the forum about the lack of grease that seems to be in the steering, to grease them good at your first opportunity. Also checking both diffs and the transfer case oil levels and having some oils on hand with a method of getting the oil into the components as I would not be surprised if those fluids are low as they were on mine, certainly the rear diff being an inch low is not cool in my books. Of course its possible your dealership is checking and topping the fluids up but mine certainly wasn't ... but they claimed they do, yeah ...