Failed Lifters

[diyer2]

I was thinking about the failed lifter issue.

The mileage when this happens varies a lot.

My thoughts are bad parts, extended oil changes, not disabling AFM or ?

I have always done 3 K mile oil changes on my vehicles.

 

My 2012 5.3L was purchased with 41 k miles, new oil and filter from dealer.

At 43 k miles the oil was really dirty.

Did a filter and oil change.

3 k mile changes since.

 

I have noticed the oil pressure gauge reading has changed. I posted about this.

It would idle at 40 psi when hot, now 30 psi.

Cold start psi was 50 as best as I could tell due to the design of the oil pressure gauge.

Now cold starts are definitely higher, 60 psi.

I have also noticed the motor is quieter at idle while standing by the truck.

Same oil and filter from the start.

 

I did get a Range device shortly after buying it.

Now living in the mountains I don't use the Range device due to the roads never allow it to get to 6th gear.

I drive it in manual now since learning the roads I drive.

 

I think a big part of the failures are bad parts but I wonder if some of the reasons I mentioned could play a part in the failures.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[bgbdwlf2500]

I had a 30 year gm mechanic tell me that the AFM issue is due to using synthetic oil. I disagree with that unless people are using the oil life monitor or just thinking that you can go 15000 miles on an oil change. I run mobil 1 full synthetic with the dexos label on it and use either a fram or mobil 1 filter and change every 3k. I bought the truck with 103k it now has 127k and I only notice a little oil loss between changes. I have also disabled afm since around the 110k mark. This yearly oil that has been released now is insane to me.

 

as far as oil pressure my truck pushes 40 when cold at idle. once it warms up it usually hangs at 20 and then around 30 when moving. my truck has the 3.08 gears so the rpm is always lower than trucks with other ratios.

Edited January 12, 2018 by bgbdwlf2500

[mookdoc6]

1 hour ago, bgbdwlf2500 said:

I had a 30 year gm mechanic tell me that the AFM issue is due to using synthetic oil. I disagree with that unless people are using the oil life monitor or just thinking that you can go 15000 miles on an oil change. I run mobil 1 full synthetic with the dexos label on it and use either a fram or mobil 1 filter and change every 3k. I bought the truck with 103k it now has 127k and I only notice a little oil loss between changes. I have also disabled afm since around the 110k mark. This yearly oil that has been released now is insane to me.

 

as far as oil pressure my truck pushes 40 when cold at idle. once it warms up it usually hangs at 20 and then around 30 when moving. my truck has the 3.08 gears so the rpm is always lower than trucks with other ratios.

There is probably 100qty things to take into consideration of lifter failure?  You hear about more with Ford,GM, Fiat.......synthetic oil?  Probably not on the list that would be a first!  Anyway, Expansion/Contraction and how you go about your business is your problem..........So if your Johnny I fire it up and and 4-5-6K two blocks away you will have problems...many oil related issues too and other associated parts. I.e springs, cams etc........But attention to properly allow for expansion and contraction you will not have problems.......but you will all do what you do!

[EFLine]

I too have been seeing lots of posts about the faulty lifters. Can someone give me the low down on the symptoms to look for that might show you have faulty lifters? Just want to get educated as to what I can do to keep an eye out for. 

 

I have the obvious "DI clatter" but I also have this nifty feature that I burn about 1.5 to 2 quarts of oil every 3,000 miles. Truck has about 62,000 miles now, and I do oil changes only with Mobil 1 Full Synthetic DEXOS and Mobil 1 filters every 6,000 miles. I did buy it used at 27,000 miles so no clue what happened before me....

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, bgbdwlf2500 said:

I had a 30 year gm mechanic tell me that the AFM issue is due to using synthetic oil.

So what do ya think is worse? Saying it's so. Believing it's so or repeating it? 

[dsr611]

1 hour ago, EFLine said:

I too have been seeing lots of posts about the faulty lifters. Can someone give me the low down on the symptoms to look for that might show you have faulty lifters? Just want to get educated as to what I can do to keep an eye out for. 

 

 

Here's the link to the post I made about this time last year when I had one fail

 

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/196689-what-is-this-chirping/

 

 

[swathdiver]

Dirty, worn out oil is AFMs worst enemy.  Conventional oils are dead by 5,000 miles and anyone who has been around autos for very long has seen all the gunk those oils leave behind.  Synthetics in my experience leave nothing behind and will help clean out an engine full of conventional oil gunk.  This can cause problems for the AFM system.  

 

AFM is a cool idea and its execution this time around is far better than during the 1980s on those 4-6-8 Cadillacs.  Same engineer involved in both projects.  Having said that, it needlessly complicates an engine (for the consumer, not GM having to deal with CAFE Standards) and offers little improvement to a heavily weighted truck like mine.  A good tune with AFM turned off results in better fuel economy anyway.

[dsr611]

6 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

A good tune with AFM turned off results in better fuel economy anyway.

^^^This^^^

Before I had the issues with the lifters in my truck, I would average around 17 mpg, according to the DIC.

Since having the DOD/AFM kit installed and turning the AFM off with the Diablo tuner I got, I'm averaging about 18.5 mpg

[Jsdirt]

No question these vehicles have zero tolerance for lack of maintenance, but domestics have been that way since the dawn of the automobile - nothing has changed there.

 

What HAS changed however, and is glaringly evident from where I stand (elbow-deep in grease, and under the hood of alot of different vehicles), is that long term reliability has gone down the toilet. The way these things are built today, is that they are designed to extract the most amount of money out of you as they can. No longer can someone just replace a certain part - now, it needs to be programmed to work. What a joke ... but I digress ...

 

Engines used to be off-limits to the "cheap-out express" ... but not anymore. These days they will cut corners anywhere and everywhere they can.

 

Just look at FoMoCo, with the 6.0 & 6.4 diesels - how many owners are out $20,000 after paying $60,000 for their trucks due to catastrophic engine failures? Look at the 4.0 DOHC engine with the timing chain cassette failures, requiring ENGINE REMOVAL and a pile of special tools to replace! Look at Fiat-Chrysler, with their notorious TIPM units that cause everything from your windows going down by themselves in the middle of the night, to a complete no-start, leaving you for dead on the side of the road. Then the HEMI's version of AFM that they must've copied from GM - those are failing around 90k - 100k miles. Lifter problems. Sound familiar? Some others are having valve guide problems. Then we have our beloved GM. Oil burner city, failed camshafts, failed lifters, failed valve springs, failed piston rings, FAIL FAIL FAIL!!!  

 

They create a great looking vehicle, with awesome suspension, braking, power, and handling, and wrap it all up in a shit sandwich, and we gulp it down willingly. There's soooo much wrong with that picture. Why do people put up with this? I know our grandparents, and great-grandparents would NOT have, especially with what they're getting for these things today!

 

Anyway, I could rant all day about the state of automotive affairs, but I've got more junk to repair. I'll leave you with some pictures of stuck GM AFM lifters out of a '08 5.3 engine:

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, Jsdirt said:

No question these vehicles have zero tolerance for lack of maintenance, but domestics have been that way since the dawn of the automobile - nothing has changed there.

 

 

I'll leave you with some pictures of stuck GM AFM lifters out of a '08 5.3 engine:

 

 

 

If I may impose on your experience.

 

Compare the failure rate between the LS platform AFM (above) to that of the 2014 and later Ecotec3 AFM platform with point of reference. Example: X in a hundred motors sold experiences an AFM failure pre 2014 vs X units per hundred sold post 2014. 

 

If you feel so inclined it would be useful to compare as well failures pre and post the AFM 'fix' era as well. 

 

Thank you in advance for any information presented. 

 

[Jsdirt]

2014 is barely out of warranty - they'll start showing up in the next year or 2. Just like with my '07, the news didn't start rolling out until about 2010-2011. By then it was an avalanche.

 

I have already seen posts on failed direct injection injectors on '14 up - GM designed these in such a way that you have to replace the ENTIRE fuel rail on top of the engine whenever it is removed in any way. Real nice. Seen a post already on a '18 already having this issue. The '18's have some goofy box in front of the intake manifold that will leave you pulling your hair out, until you realize you have to remove the entire intake manifold to access the bolts! Another epic brainstorm ... but I digress.

 

Have yet to hear of an AFM repair coming back (unless it was completely botched by a rookie). I do know in the hotrod world, when you buy an engine from a place that does nothing else but build engines, they typically last forever, even with some heavy foot /  high RPM abuse. Same can be said of anything built outside of OE, depending on the company or shop. Bottom line is, if you do the best job you can, it'll be 100x better than OE.

[GhostWriter]

3 hours ago, Jsdirt said:

Have yet to hear of an AFM repair coming back (unless it was completely botched by a rookie). I do know in the hotrod world, when you buy an engine from a place that does nothing else but build engines, they typically last forever, even with some heavy foot /  high RPM abuse. Same can be said of anything built outside of OE, depending on the company or shop. Bottom line is, if you do the best job you can, it'll be 100x better than OE.

Am going to hold onto the Avalanche till the wheels fall off.

 

If my recent lifter repair doesn't last, are there any long block replacements you would recommend.?Assuming Goodwrench wouldn't be one  of them.

[Jsdirt]

Pretty much any company that builds nothing but engines. These days I wouldn't trust GM to tie my shoes.

 

Thank God they don't build aircraft ...

Edited January 14, 2018 by Jsdirt

[diyer2]

So is the consensus that I will eventually have failed lifters on my 2012? 

[GhostWriter]

I would say "No," because there are too many variables; and, anecdotal evidence that some of these AFM engines have reached close to 300,000 miles without any other issue, than old age.

 

Since my cam lobes & pistons still looked good, I chose to only install the updated lifters, oil pan gasket, valve cover, oil pump pick-up tube o-ring, & VLOM.  Had already turned off the AFM, with my Diablo tuner.

 

Use Mobile 1, and change oil at around 5K.  If another failed lifter occurs, I will install a complete AFM delete kit, assuming the engine is still salvageable.  Never liked the idea of having a mix of longer & shorter lobes & lifters in my engine.

 

Also, will purchase the finest components that can be found.  Since I'm married to the Avalanche for the foreseeable future, it's good to have a plan.  All engines have some sort of hot-button issue.  For me, the AFM concern has become manageable.