Lane Keep Assist and Low Speed Forward Automatic Braking worth it?

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Your assuming everyone who has the feature will use it to drive more distracted. I’m throwing the idea out that it can help the attentive be even more so. I agree with you on the societal problem with distracted driving. I know the immense forces involved, I’ve experienced a collision before. But that’s not what I’m trying to argue here.

 

1 hour ago, '17 Sierra said:

I agree with you 100%...The Grumpy Guy quoted my earlier post saying I was following too close (which he has since deleted that post):

 "Then your follow distance was a bit short? (Question not a statement) A very basic driving skill and one few give enough of. Why? "Because if I give enough space then someone else will take it'!  Wrong answer, right? "

Hello.... that was my point! I was following too close and it saved me from rear ending the guy. I think now I know where he got his name.

Where is the ROTFLMAO icon when you need it. 

 

1.) A question is not an assumption. It's an inquiry. I didn't SAY anything. What was the point of the blatant lie? A weak attempt at an inflammatory accusation? A bit of pot stirring? You really don't want to go there, right?

 

2.) So...you were following to close and you've proved my point in spades. Because you have forward crash assist you drive in a manor than requires it's use. HELLO. Point served Point made.  

 

3.) I deleted the post as I'd thought all that needed saying had been said and then, what do ya know...proof arrived gift wrapped. 

 

4.) Yes GRUMPY is made with one part inflammatory personal attack, a dash of blind irrationality, two parts degradation of the English language and a whole lot of unreasonableness; then marinade in precise opportunity and baked with malic. 

 

[wforrest08]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Keep the computers away from automatic braking and steering. FBW throttles, brakes and steering as well. 

Sure wish the nice collage girl that ran into the back of my parked 3/4 ton (as I watched) at 25mph would have had some kind of automatic braking system. Because then I wouldn’t have had to replace the new chrome GM bumper l had put on 6 months ago with another new GM chrome bumper and drivers side bumper bracket and I wouldn’t have had to argue with her insurance company about only wanting to pay out for a NON GM chrome bumper and most importantly I wouldn’t have got yelled at by the wife for yelling WTF at the moment of impact and told I have to be nice to her (collage girl). Luckily the class 4 receiver took most of the brunt. I drove away her totaled Impala left on the hook. 

['17 Sierra]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Where is the ROTFLMAO icon when you need it. 

 

1.) A question is not an assumption. It's an inquiry. I didn't SAY anything. What was the point of the blatant lie? A weak attempt at an inflammatory accusation? A bit of pot stirring? You really don't want to go there, right?

 

2.) So...you were following to close and you've proved my point in spades. Because you have forward crash assist you drive in a manor than requires it's use. HELLO. Point served Point made.  

 

3.) I deleted the post as I'd thought all that needed saying had been said and then, what do ya know...proof arrived gift wrapped. 

 

4.) Yes GRUMPY is made with one part inflammatory personal attack, a dash of blind irrationality, two parts degradation of the English language and a whole lot of unreasonableness; then marinade in precise opportunity and baked with malic. 

 

Easy there gramps, you're gunna blow a gasket and you really don't want to go there, right?

[Grumpy Bear]

31 minutes ago, wforrest08 said:

Sure wish the nice collage girl that ran into the back of my parked 3/4 ton (as I watched) at 25mph would have had some kind of automatic braking system. Because then I wouldn’t have had to replace the new chrome GM bumper l had put on 6 months ago with another new GM chrome bumper and drivers side bumper bracket and I wouldn’t have had to argue with her insurance company about only wanting to pay out for a NON GM chrome bumper and most importantly I wouldn’t have got yelled at by the wife for yelling WTF at the moment of impact and told I have to be nice to her (collage girl). Luckily the class 4 receiver took most of the brunt. I drove away her totaled Impala left on the hook. 

25 mph total? Pretty impressive receiver. What brand was it? 

 

I don't know about you but I'd blame the driver, not the car. Really, it's the cars fault?  That said I had a resident of Mexico let his 3/4 ton Dodge Power Wagon roll down hill into my Corvette in the parking lot of a Burger joint. Let me see. Non resident without insurance on private property. He was escorted to the border and I lost a Vette without any recourse. I was livid but I did not blame the car. 

29 minutes ago, '17 Sierra said:

Easy there gramps, you're gunna blow a gasket and you really don't want to go there, right?

Couldn't be more calm and I'm the one taking fire. Coooool as the other side of the pillow. 

[wforrest08]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

25 mph total? Pretty impressive receiver. What brand was it? 

 

I don't know about you but I'd blame the driver, not the car. Really, it's the cars fault?  That said I had a resident of Mexico let his 3/4 ton Dodge Power Wagon roll down hill into my Corvette in the parking lot of a Burger joint. Let me see. Non resident without insurance on private property. He was escorted to the border and I lost a Vette without any recourse. I was livid but I did not blame the car. 

Couldn't be more calm and I'm the one taking fire. Coooool as the other side of the pillow. 

It’s a Curt, I’m still using it, and still pulls straight. Pushed the truck 8 ft forward measured the skid marks first thing I check was the parking pin couldn’t believe it didn’t break.

 

Didn’t blame the car... More than obvious it’s the drivers fault the car wasn’t during it’s self. Wasn’t the point. Point is WE ALL ARE BETTER OFF if some of these people on the road have these things. 

 

If you lost your vette your fault it’s called uninsured/under insured coverage and it’s fairly cheap. Yep it’s F’n stupid that anyone in this country would need this insurance but you do...

[2018GMC]

7 hours ago, truckguy82 said:

lane keep assist is worth it

 

there are only 3 radar based convenience/safety features that are worth anything for a man behind the wheel

rated on a 1-10 scale for how useful they are/can be

blind spot monitoring - 2

automatic collision braking - 4 (for the one time it saves your ass)

adaptive cruise control - 10 (one of the best new tech features of the last 15 years, and GM vehicles actually have a great system)

lane keep assist is worthless, and it gets negative points because it can actually be a bad thing

I would not pay $1k for any of these features except ACC, I would pay $2-$3k just for that.

I too would add adaptive cruise. It’s finally available on the new generation 2019 T1XX trucks along with blind zone alert mirrors. 

[Cheverado]

    I understand that I am not comparing apples to apples here but,  in defense of the forward collision alert; it for sure saved the wife and I a trip to the hospital (if not the morgue) due to carelessness on my part(nagging on her part). It is a feature on her 2016 Maxima. semi truck in front of us just decided to stop for no reason while she was insisting I reset an alert on her dash while I was driving. I've never been in a wreck in my life, but this most certainly would have been the first. Immediately following this, I was on the hunt for a Silverado that had it.

  Now that I have one I'm glad that I made the move. Forward collision alert has only gone off once when I first bought it (had the sensitivity set too high). I use the safety alert seat not the beeps. the only time it goes off is when exiting or entering the freeway when crossing he dotted lines. Other than that I have no issues with it.

   All that said  -  if I had the option today with the Enhanced package being the only thing available on the new trucks, I'd be looking for a pre-owned model without the autonomous braking and lane keep assist.

 I'd like to add one more thing: why is it that we have to purchase trucks that have to be crammed with damn near every option available in order to get these safety features? Is it automatically assumed that WT's,  LS's and most LT's don't need this? Or should it be standard and we just turn it off if we wish? It's some sort of "elite" marketing strategy if you ask me.

 

OK, I'm done.

Just don't just my two cents.

[Crstfr]

i wish i had blind spot monitoring... only thing on the list i'd want.. 

[Grumpy Bear]

 

Quote

Point is WE ALL ARE BETTER OFF if some of these people on the road have these things. 

 

 If you lost your Vette your fault it’s called uninsured/under insured coverage and it’s fairly cheap. Yep it’s F’n stupid that anyone in this country would need this insurance but you do...

We would be better off if laws were enforced well enough that they are respected and followed. We would be better off if we had to drive to a higher level of proficiency that piloting a hay wagon across an open field  before being issued a drivers license.

 

 I had uninsured motorist. It had loopholes. Private lot. Non-resident. No tickets issued.  I got a new insurer and a lawyer to read my contracts before signing. Shouldn't have trusted the insurance company. Your right it was my fault.

4 hours ago, Cheverado said:

 

 I'd like to add one more thing: why is it that we have to purchase trucks that have to be crammed with damn near every option available in order to get these safety features? Is it automatically assumed that WT's,  LS's and most LT's don't need this? Or should it be standard and we just turn it off if we wish? It's some sort of "elite" marketing strategy if you ask me.

 

OK, I'm done.

Just don't just my two cents.

Because it isn't about safety. It's about the illusion of safety in the minor and in the major it's about the money. Something that is eluding this thread entirely. 

 

Real safety isn't about what happens after contact. That called damage mitigation. It was the NHTSA first go at it. Seatbelts, bumpers, airbags and guard beams. It's, in part, about avoiding contact, yes. Forward crash assistance, lane departure. Problem is while it's the right idea it's the wrong method. Why? Because a machine, no matter how smart it is, can't assess and minimize risk. Driverless cars have already had accidents. Giving that task to a machine eliminates the need the driver feels to acquire a safer method or hone a weak skill.

 

Who among you does not stand a little closer to the precipice when a guard rail is in play? 

 

Even auto braking is a feature that kicks in AFTER the fact. After the safe zone has been breached. After it is to late for human intervention. 

 

The only thing the auto braking does better than an experienced driver is reduce 'reaction time'. The machine can't stop the car any faster that the driver. It's just gets to the pedal quicker. Something totally unneeded IF the driver was doing what the driver aught be doing. Driving! Fact is, close the gap tight enough and not even your precious auto braking will avoid the collision.

 

All but one of you has already admitted they were 'at fault'. The other who not in his car...well....what's the real problem here?

 

And you know what auto braking cant' do?  It can get off the pedal. A decision that may be required when a human brain decides the frontal  impact is preferred to the alternative.  I'll take the deer in front of me over the cement truck behind me every time. 

 

The real issue here is that people what to keep their risky behaviors. They want' to speed. Follow to close. Go two or three at a time through a stop sign or red light. Text. Yack on the phone. Argue with the wife. Drink or get high. Pass unsafely. Drive in conditions they shouldn't. Then they also want to be absolved of the consequences and absolution before God. That requires that someone else be to blame. A machine?? 

[Grumpy Bear]

Who among you does not stand a little closer to the precipice when a guard rail is in play? 

 

                           Took long enough to ring the bell. 

 

Two thousand matches. That’s how many chess matches I played Salomon in the course of about ten years. Sal instructed, coached at the high school level and competed when in college. After college as an amateur and finally as a professional. Good enough to be a Pro not good enough to make ends meet doing it. An accomplished journeyman in every sense of the word.

My record against Sal was downright embarrassing.  2/1/1997. No that’s not a date. Two wins, a draw and one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven losses. All losses first then the draw and finally two wins back to back and we retired the challenge.

Sal said he had nothing left to teach me.

Truth is I had nothing left to give and I knew it. I’ve never played since. I didn’t win that final game due to any finely honed and practiced skill. I didn’t win it on luck. I didn’t win it because Sal gave less than his best. Sal made few mistakes and never one he couldn’t recover from. At least against players at my level.

It’s called a Discovered Check. Wikipedia says this:

 “In chess, a discovered attack is an attack revealed when one piece moves out of the way of another. Discovered attacks can be extremely powerful, as the piece moved can make a threat independently of the piece it reveals. ... If the discovered attack is a check, it is called a discovered check”.

 

In this game is was not just a Check but a Discovered Check Double Mate. Rare! Mated by both pieces independently and yet in concert.

 

Chess is called allot of things. The game than can never be lost twice the same way. A game of strategy. The game of Kings.

 

What it really is, is a game of vision. Not just what’s in front of you. But what will be there in the next few moves with little to no variance. That’s important.

 

Chess played to a win is variance limited to exacting degree in its certainty of conclusion. This is never more powerful and indefensible than when discovered.

 

It isn’t something that is strategized. Stagey precedes it. It is hard to explain and in all likelihood the reason it took me 1999 games to see it.

 

The draw was a simple excited desperation. The first win that of the ‘usual’ strategizing. Which could have just as easily been a defeat or draw with any one of countless simple mistakes.  

 

But that last game….it was mental clarity the likes of which I had never before experienced and truth be told, I never have again in a chess game. When it presents itself it is unavoidable, crystal clear and sudden.

 

Books and teachers place you in a space that makes it likely to happen but not a certain too. It can’t be taught, only experienced.

 

I had a similar experience happen a few years ago while driving.

You can’t replicate it with computer guided automatic operations.

 

Safety isn’t something that can be programed into a vehicle. It’s something owned and ‘seen’  by the driver that transcends awareness and whose goal is not personal preservation but rather universal mitigation of human loss in the absolute. Something automated systems can never be programed to do.   

[KARNUT]

In the over 40 years and close to 2 million miles driven, 3 accidents. One in the first six months, my fault. Two and three within two wks of each other drivers running stop signs one drunk. Those experiences made me realize I’m driving a weapon that could kill. Made me super attentive driving and defensive aggressive. Bought one vehicle with lane departure warning. Made me let my guard down. May doom me to entry vehicles so be it. Drive pay attention, end of story.


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[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

In the over 40 years and close to 2 million miles driven, 3 accidents. One in the first six months, my fault. Two and three within two wks of each other drivers running stop signs one drunk. Those experiences made me realize I’m driving a weapon that could kill. Made me super attentive driving and defensive aggressive. Bought one vehicle with lane departure warning. Made me let my guard down. May doom me to entry vehicles so be it. Drive pay attention, end of story.

Driving nearly 50 years. Miles, too many to count. First accident in under six months. Took lives. Ruined lives. Destroyed property beyond measure. All from under 40 mph. There isn't an automated system on the planet that would have prevented it. Experience and training would have. Drive, Pay Attention, end of story. 

[Krusty]

Wow this thread sure went into the weeds - people love to complain don't they........

 

I got it for the better headlights - switch off what I don't like - perfect world...........

 

[truckguy82]

Lol at saying a computer can’t do a better job than you

 

maybe current systems can’t, but there’s no reason in the near future a car couldn’t avoid accidents by intentionally doing perfectly executed to the millisecond 360 degree spin to avoid multiple moving objects.

 

People forget how important reaction time is. Don’t measure it in time, measure it in distance. A half second can be 50-60 feet, or pretty much the braking capability difference between a laferrari and a sierra.

 

Rofl at anybody who thinks their illogical fear of letting a computer make decisions puts them in danger

[Mike GMC]

I like driving.  I'll be damned if I will be a passenger in my own vehicle.  At that point, why even own a vehicle, just take the bus if you are willing to let someone, or something, take over.  Not me.  If that puts me in some level of danger, so be it.  I will never own a vehicle that won't let me drive.  If that means I have drive my '00 or my '15 for the rest of my life, fine.  I like rebuilding cars and trucks.  Maybe I'll just build a resto-mod late 60s truck and drive that.  Probably cheaper than buying new ones anyway.