Fuel in Oil and Extended Warranty

[NCPGMC]

17 hours ago, lawnboy-5247 said:

I started noticing that the oil level in my truck was increasing about a month ago and sent a sample into Blackstone labs, they reported back that I had 5.3% fuel in my oil. what are my chances of getting the issue fixed under my trucks extended warranty? is 5.3% fuel in oil enough for GM to do anything?

Curious, which test did you have Blackstone conduct? The Standard Oil Analysis? Also, was it a cold test or did you run the engine awhile before taking the sample? What other comments were provided on your report?

[L86 All Terrain]

4 minutes ago, wforrest08 said:

He said that the oil level is increasing on the dipstick. There is fuel in everybody’s DI engines oil it’s a byproduct of DI should be 2% or less of total crankcase volume. 

What makes this a common characteristic of Direct Injection? I understand there are higher crankcase pressures with DI, which leads to oil mist venting through the PCV system, but how does the Gas get down in there in the first place? Surely pressures should not be high enough to bypass or (blow-by) the piston rings, especially on a new engine. I wonder if the injectors tend to spray, and "wash" the cylinder wall leading to inadequate lubrication and premature ring wear, or just fuel managing to be pushed through the ring gaps? The injectors are pointed on an angle in these LT's, they do not fire directly over the piston as I understand that is common with all Direct Injection systems, including 2 stroke snowmobiles. 

[wforrest08]

7 minutes ago, L86 All Terrain said:

What makes this a common characteristic of Direct Injection? I understand there are higher crankcase pressures with DI, which leads to oil mist venting through the PCV system, but how does the Gas get down in there in the first place? Surely pressures should not be high enough to bypass or (blow-by) the piston rings, especially on a new engine. I wonder if the injectors tend to spray, and "wash" the cylinder wall leading to inadequate lubrication and premature ring wear, or just fuel managing to be pushed through the ring gaps? The injectors are pointed on an angle in these LT's, they do not fire directly over the piston as I understand that is common with all Direct Injection systems, including 2 stroke snowmobiles. 

Google fuel in oil direct injection and/or fuel dilution in direct injection. Read some articles they can explain this better than I can. Ams-oil has pretty good articles about this also. DI is also why your tailpipe is black with soot...

[SS502]

23 minutes ago, L86 All Terrain said:

What makes this a common characteristic of Direct Injection? I understand there are higher crankcase pressures with DI, which leads to oil mist venting through the PCV system, but how does the Gas get down in there in the first place? Surely pressures should not be high enough to bypass or (blow-by) the piston rings, especially on a new engine. I wonder if the injectors tend to spray, and "wash" the cylinder wall leading to inadequate lubrication and premature ring wear, or just fuel managing to be pushed through the ring gaps? The injectors are pointed on an angle in these LT's, they do not fire directly over the piston as I understand that is common with all Direct Injection systems, including 2 stroke snowmobiles. 

I am not convinced it is directly related to a PROPERLY operating DI engine. All gasoline engines will get some fuel in the oil. The problems start when the fuel exceeds 2.5% which will reduce the viscosity leading to scored cylinder walls and the snowball starts. If a injector goes bad (and the DI injectors seem to fail more frequently) and is dumping more fuel into that cylinder this will allow more fuel to get into the oil and then the trouble just gets worse...enough fuel even through one cylinder into the oil will affect all the cylinders via reduced viscosity.

[lawnboy-5247]

When I took the oil sample it was directly after a period of highway driving to get the truck fully warmed up as Blackstone sugguests. I drive 15-20 min to work on weekdays but frequently take hour plus trips on the weekend so the truck does get fully warmed up fairly regularly.

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[Nitrousbird]

This is NOT a result of being a DI motor.  My BMW has one of the earliest DI motors. It has 145k on it now. I run the piss out of it at 2x stock boost yet had no measurable fuel in the oil on my last analysis with over 6k on the oil.

 

HPFP in these trucks are known to leak into the oil.  That would be my first concern.

 

As for mileage, nothing wrong with not putting miles on her.  I have had mine for over 5 months and put 2300 on it...500 of those was the first day driving home from the dealership.  That said, pretty much all the trips I do take are 30+ minutes and typically include some freeway travel, so the truck gets fully warmed up on every drive. My car is my daily driver.  Truck is nicer but not as fun to drive!

[KARNUT]

I know KARNUT is going to tell one of his stories again, I’m old so indulge me. This thread has gotten me to wonder how much gas in the oil a engine can stand. The last carburetor engine I built was a 454. It started in my wife’s daily in a impala. While she drove the car it had a quadrajet carb. The reason was when the float sticks it dumps gas internal. Holley dumps external. Once a year for three years it would happen, I would replace the carburetor. I transplanted the engine in a nova. Two years I dragged race the car often. I trade the car to a friend. He put the engine in a pickup change the valve springs and shifted at 7K. I traded him a hot cutlass for the truck. A year later back. This engine got gas washed often and abused. It’s back in the conventional oil days, probably Quaker state. Once a year oil changes or 4K miles. So how much it too much gas in the oil?


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[1SLOW1500]

So it is possible the injectors washed out the cylinder walls and cause the rings to scrap and fold. See a truck with less miles than yours do just that. One of the reasons we worry about pulse width on injectors. HPFP can be leaking and have heard of that, more common on the line fittings.
Anyways you are in a pickle. You want warranty but I wouldn't tip your hand and walk in there with a oil report. I would start a complaint and carefully have the service man write it down. These things take time and when they look back and read reports it needs to look like Joe average worked with dealer and dealer failed to resolve stated issue. Other is if it let's go soon after warranty. And you never had a open claim on oil issue.

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[SS502]

24 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I know KARNUT is going to tell one of his stories again, I’m old so indulge me. This thread has gotten me to wonder how much gas in the oil a engine can stand. The last carburetor engine I built was a 454. It started in my wife’s daily in a impala. While she drove the car it had a quadrajet carb. The reason was when the float sticks it dumps gas internal. Holley dumps external. Once a year for three years it would happen, I would replace the carburetor. I transplanted the engine in a nova. Two years I dragged race the car often. I trade the car to a friend. He put the engine in a pickup change the valve springs and shifted at 7K. I traded him a hot cutlass for the truck. A year later back. This engine got gas washed often and abused. It’s back in the conventional oil days, probably Quaker state. Once a year oil changes or 4K miles. So how much it too much gas in the oil?


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I have read (from different sources) that 2.5% is when today's oils start losing their viscosity and their protective qualities.

 

This is one: https://www.reference.com/vehicles/causes-gas-odor-engine-oil-5c62d75171fda776

 

Here is another that reports anything greater than 2% starts degrading the viscosity: https://www.spectrosci.com/resource-center/lubrication-analysis/literature/e-guides/guide-to-measuring-fuel-dilution/

['17 Sierra]

If it's a bad injector, you'd notice a miss; especially if it's open all the time, you'd notice a miss during idle for sure. Probably not rings with so few miles although not impossible. My bet is the HPFP.

[mookdoc6]

48 minutes ago, '17 Sierra said:

If it's a bad injector, you'd notice a miss; especially if it's open all the time, you'd notice a miss during idle for sure. Probably not rings with so few miles although not impossible. My bet is the HPFP.

Yes and No...they leak and you wouldn't notice when shut down or turned off.

[Frank4202]

This is a common problem on the 10-18 Equinox. My wife's Equinox had the same issue. We replaced the high pressure fuel pump and it has been good since. Silly direct fuel inejection...

[mookdoc6]

11 hours ago, Nitrousbird said:

This is NOT a result of being a DI motor.  My BMW has one of the earliest DI motors. It has 145k on it now. I run the piss out of it at 2x stock boost yet had no measurable fuel in the oil on my last analysis with over 6k on the oil.

 

HPFP in these trucks are known to leak into the oil.  That would be my first concern.

 

As for mileage, nothing wrong with not putting miles on her.  I have had mine for over 5 months and put 2300 on it...500 of those was the first day driving home from the dealership.  That said, pretty much all the trips I do take are 30+ minutes and typically include some freeway travel, so the truck gets fully warmed up on every drive. My car is my daily driver.  Truck is nicer but not as fun to drive!

Measuring fuel in oil no mater what the gasoline delivery process is, will always result in Fuel contamination.  Saying your engine consumes no oil is a misnomer too.  Byproduct in oil is absolutely happening how we measure or quantify precisely the exact ratio is another thread entirely.  What I can say is, "GDI's are absolutely more apt to having oil/fuel contamination issues" than others due to it's delivery & combustion process.  GDI does not make it the end all be all reason....as there are many reasons for possible fuel dilution.  I used to flood my grandpa's old Chevy just to watch him try and start it for 5 minutes swearing/cursing etc.  I was young not knowing that I was diluting his oil too,killing his starter etc.etc.

[wforrest08]

10 hours ago, KARNUT said:

This thread has gotten me to wonder how much gas in the oil a engine can stand.

 

So how much it too much gas in the oil?

IDK but back when I was wrenching I had seen a couple of times where it was inches above the “full” mark on the dipsticks. One was a TBI Chevy that holds 5 quarts and I drained 8+ out of it. Fixed  the injector changed the oil/filter sent it out the door. The customer drove it to the shop and off the lot. How long did it run IDK but I was pretty impressed it made it there and it left under it’s own power...

[2018GMC]

On 3/26/2019 at 5:45 PM, qwank said:

we see a lot of high pressure fuel pumps leaking into the engine 

^ This