2.7 Turbo 4 Fan Club

[customboss]

1 minute ago, CoolHandWayne said:

No no. Average is definitely higher than that though I can't say exactly. Somewhere closer to 58. I am not on interstates much. Rural 45, 55 and 60 mph zones. Though to keep the mpg average high I do take opportunities to make certain drives around 50 when I reasonably can. 

Which 2021 model? Not a lifted truck I assume? 

[CoolHandWayne]

20 minutes ago, customboss said:

Which 2021 model? Not a lifted truck I assume? 

Custom. Not lifted. No bed cover. Quad cab 4x4. Original wheels and tires. Windows up or cracked. 

[CoolHandWayne]

There seem to be a handful in this thread with some pretty in-depth knowledge of this engine. Does anyone know what features GM employed in this engine to combat build up on the intake valves? As far as I can tell there is no port injection system and many engines running on direct injection alone have had problems with build up on intake valves due to no fuel flowing past them and cleaning them. I have heard of other solutions though. Anyone know? What are the chances these engines end up needing periodic valve jobs to clean the intake valves?

[customboss]

1 hour ago, CoolHandWayne said:

There seem to be a handful in this thread with some pretty in-depth knowledge of this engine. Does anyone know what features GM employed in this engine to combat build up on the intake valves? As far as I can tell there is no port injection system and many engines running on direct injection alone have had problems with build up on intake valves due to no fuel flowing past them and cleaning them. I have heard of other solutions though. Anyone know? What are the chances these engines end up needing periodic valve jobs to clean the intake valves?

Improved crankcase venting, free breathing intake and turbo, the injectors are direct in cylinder but may be located in a position to get some fuel charge on intake valves a bit.  My opinion and not confirmed.  Looking at the videos and descriptions tends to show a change in injector location. 

 

Our gasolines meet emissions and regional requirements but if you don't burn optimally for any reason in any DI spark engine you WILL build carbon based deposits and potentially polymers and additives the oil companies use to make additional shellac and varnish deposits. I have taken 3 oil analysis samples on my new 22 LTD Trail Boss L3B and while its well built and blow-by is low, fuels dilute has never measured less than 1.3% when a healthy IC spark engine should measure < 0.5% fuels in the engine oil. 

 

This engine was built essentially around the turbo and its used all the time to ensure optimum air flow to the cylinders. 

 

Like any DI engine you want to limit deposit formation from day 1.  

 

I read you use a K&N air filter and assume its oiled?  If so I recommend cleaning it often and meticulously. It will either leak dirt in a micro tear in cotton media or if over-serviced will restrict air flow. 

 

Personally after many years of engine testing and oil and fuels analysis work we have found that  use of an oem air filter and change it as often as is required to keep nitration reading below 10 abs units and fuels dilute as low as you can.  

 

The only difference between HD air filter and regular is pleats, change the regular more often, save money and save fuel. 

 

At ~ 6500 miles on my Trail Boss my air flow meter indicates 90% life remaining, nitration confirms thats probably pretty accurate but fuels dilute just measured 1.7% and MAYBE changing out the HD original filter for the regular AC DELCO air filter would improve some incremental air flow and help drop that. 

 

Good ring and valve guide seal is imperative so run the best engine oil you can afford, you mentioned Motul and its OK but there are better for this design ( and less cost)  IMHO. I am still trying to pin that down with testing different chemistries.  ACDELCO, QuakerState full syn, and Mobil1 have been tested to date. 

 

I am also testing 85 octane, 87, 88, 91 to see where the sweet spot for clean burn and optimum MPG is for us at 7000-9000' msl in the mountains.  CENEX fuels here have given me pretty clean burn. CO-OP and CENEX and maybe MFA in some markets are well additized to attempt to clean up what the approved gasolines leave in deposits. 

 

Remember the ECM is good at adjusting for many parameters but its primary role is emissions reduction so it overfuels needlessly with painless operation for the owner.  Making little changes in fuels, air filter change, engine oil used etc can leverage against that tuning. 

 

Since this engine has been out since 2019 I haven't read anyone here nor seen or heard of others in the oil analysis world see the  uncleanable gross ford ecoboost like deposits on valves and pistons.  

 

Why I mentioned the nitration and fuels dilute readings using FTIR  nitration, soot, and Gas Chromatography (GC) fuel in oil readings.  If those stay lower as indicated above you most likely don't have carbon, varnish, or shellac ruining their operation.  

 

My opinion based on testing and exposure to OEM designs over the years. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoolHandWayne]

The oiled air filter being a potential concern with a DI engine had crossed my mind. I figured it's relatively so little oil in it that it couldn't be but so bad one way or another. May end up back with the OE filter though.

 

I am currently running Motul 8300 which claims to be specifically formulated for DI and turbo engines. I'll get that tested after 5k or so and see what the saturation is like. 

 

I also wonder if a periodic seafoam treatment is a good idea to combat any potential buildup on intake valves?

 

Thanks for all your thoughts and explanation on the matter. 

[customboss]

6 minutes ago, CoolHandWayne said:

The oiled air filter being a potential concern with a DI engine had crossed my mind. I figured it's relatively so little oil in it that it couldn't be but so bad one way or another. May end up back with the OE filter though.

 

I am currently running Motul 8300 which claims to be specifically formulated for DI and turbo engines. I'll get that tested after 5k or so and see what the saturation is like. 

 

I also wonder if a periodic seafoam treatment is a good idea to combat any potential buildup on intake valves?

 

Thanks for all your thoughts and explanation on the matter. 

You are welcome and I hope it helps. 

 

The oil in the cotton  is not the issue in the K&N, its the leakage potential or air flow restriction issue. If you maintain it perfectly they function ok.  I road raced them for GM in our IMSA Olds and we threw them away after a weekend of racing. 

 

8100 Motul?  Not familiar with 8300.  300V only full synthetic GRP IV or higher formulation. Most of their lower grades of base oils are a mix of GRP III+ ( highly refined petroleum or GTL)  with a topper of GRP V or IV. 

 

I am not keen on fuel treatment from years of testing them. Seafoam is a napthenic oiled solvent and will mostly cook off in heat before it can reside from fuel side, it can clean injectors, sure but not remove farther down stream than that effectively.  Ideal my recommendation is use the best fuel you can first before adding anything to it. 

 

I am leaning towards Amsoil Signature Series 5w30  for ease of procuring, excellent quality, and I procure my oil analysis from a site sponsor and friend,  Black02Silverado.   He is  a forward leaning  Amsoil dealer here who also markets exceptional INDEPENDENT oil analysis too. 

 

Enjoy that L3B!!! 

 

 

 

 

[diyer2]

Well customboss I don't have test results or other data about Sea Foam but, I have used it for years and will add this.

When fishing once a boat sat at the dock while I loaded my boat. It would start and idle but give it any throttle and it would die.

I asked questions and found out they had driven 3 hours to his lake. The 2 cycle old motor had sat through winter with gas in it. I offered up a can of Sea Foam I had, worth a shot. We poured the majority of a can into a 6 gallon gas tank. 

Started it up and let it sit and idle. The greyish junk that started coming out the exhaust and into water was crazy. After 15 mins. it would take giving it throttle. They thanked me for saving their fishing trip. I watched them go down the lake at full throttle.

Their are quite a few fuel system cleaners out there. Some stronger, some with different formulas. I like Sea Foam for some uses because it has fuel stabilizers in it and is cheap($7) when purchased at Walmart. I have used Berrymans B12 and BG 44K. They all work when used properly.

 

[CoolHandWayne]

Sorry, I think it is 8100, not 8300. 

 

And when I mentioned seafoam treatment I meant introducing it through the intake air stream. Which yes, would likely be rather difficult in a turbo application. But my thought is that that would be the only option to give the valves some cleaning action. I've done intake seafoam treatments before with impressive results but only in older vehicles.  

[customboss]

MSDS_seafoam_EN.pdf

2 hours ago, diyer2 said:

Well customboss I don't have test results or other data about Sea Foam but, I have used it for years and will add this.

When fishing once a boat sat at the dock while I loaded my boat. It would start and idle but give it any throttle and it would die.

I asked questions and found out they had driven 3 hours to his lake. The 2 cycle old motor had sat through winter with gas in it. I offered up a can of Sea Foam I had, worth a shot. We poured the majority of a can into a 6 gallon gas tank. 

Started it up and let it sit and idle. The greyish junk that started coming out the exhaust and into water was crazy. After 15 mins. it would take giving it throttle. They thanked me for saving their fishing trip. I watched them go down the lake at full throttle.

Their are quite a few fuel system cleaners out there. Some stronger, some with different formulas. I like Sea Foam for some uses because it has fuel stabilizers in it and is cheap($7) when purchased at Walmart. I have used Berrymans B12 and BG 44K. They all work when used properly.

 

 DIYER2 not saying different chemistries don't work but getting an appropriate chemistry to the place to do the best is better not guessed at. 

 

Yes Sir,  its a good "old school"  pale oil, naptha, isopropyl alcohol, solvent that will clean small engines and engines that don't cook it out its solvency before it can get where it needs to go to clean carbon.  

 

See attached SDS  sheet that shows exactly what it contains for the most part. It's dated 2009, but about that time I was offered a position with the owners of the brand to reformulate it and they refused to update the chemistry for realities of newer engines.  So I declined. 

 

CoolHandWayne if you shoot it into intake its gonna clean whatever it touches until that chemistry cooks out in high heat of DI injectors tips and cylinder.  I don't know this design well enough yet to think it would need that.  It may not make deposits because it's designed better than other DI engines. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MSDS_seafoam_EN.pdf

Edited April 3, 2022 by customboss
Insert data

[CoolHandWayne]

So, CustomBoss, are you saying you don't think the 8100 meets criteria for use in this engine? 

[customboss]

53 minutes ago, CoolHandWayne said:

So, CustomBoss, are you saying you don't think the 8100 meets criteria for use in this engine? 

No Sir. I’m saying it’s less group IV or higher synthetic base than Motul 300V are known for. In years of testing Motul performs well in all its iterations. Just overpriced over hyped for what the myth is about the chemistries. 

[CoolHandWayne]

I see. Thanks for clarifying. I'll post test results after I drain it and compare to amsoil. 

[newdude]

Got the chance to take one of the two new 2.7T HO that showed up at work for a spin around the block.  Both crew cab short box 4x4s.  Drove a used 2019 double cab 4x4 we had first and then the 2022 HO back to back.  There definitely seemed to be a noticeable difference in grunt.  Felt faster as well, but sadly I don't have documented #s to back it.  I did notice that it's got some added turbo noise compared to the 2019 which I like.  

 

 

[customboss]

1 minute ago, CoolHandWayne said:

I see. Thanks for clarifying. I'll post test results after I drain it and compare to amsoil. 

Perfect, the more of us that post good quality oil analysis the more we can learn about this L3B and making it last and run efficiently! 

 

Remember if the oil analysis does not have a broad FTIR run or Gas Chromatography (GC)   its a waste of time. 

[customboss]

2 minutes ago, newdude said:

Got the chance to take one of the two new 2.7T HO that showed up at work for a spin around the block.  Both crew cab short box 4x4s.  Drove a used 2019 double cab 4x4 we had first and then the 2022 HO back to back.  There definitely seemed to be a noticeable difference in grunt.  Felt faster as well, but sadly I don't have documented #s to back it.  I did notice that it's got some added turbo noise compared to the 2019 which I like.  

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing newdude!