The Peckish Synapse

[Grumpy Bear]

https://www.engineangel.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SE-OIL-04.pdf

 

If you get nothing more from this one note the effect DEPSOITS have on consumption and wear. And as we know most BOX STORE oils have little to no solvency and as such, at best, SLOW the rate of deposit formation. SHORT OCI's or moves to polar oils are HUGE hedges as does use of clean fuels. 

[Grumpy Bear]

Circling Back

 

I wonder about allot of things. People looking to right is wrong and sweet is sour are not among them.

 

For *W30 oils I have advocated using those with certain manufactures or regulating body classifications such as the VW 504/507, ACEA C3 or Porsche C30. Mainly on the requirements of those specifications for a minimum and shear stable HTHS value at 3.5 cP. 

 

But I see a few problems. Many of those specs also are mid SAPS oils by requirement. Such as the Porsche spec and not all require Group IV/V fluids. A few even have very low TBN maximums. 

 

Last first. I don't have an issue with a lower TBN in principle and lower Calcium levels are helpful towards LSPI abatement but I'm running across several brands that are reaching LSPI by simply cutting the TBN by halving the Ca load. Which shortens the fluids service life considerably. And while I can and do live with that they are being marketed as long service life oils and therein lies the rub. The claim that 'improved' base oils are allowing this is less than truthful. Those bases have been in service for multiple service classes for DECADES and more than one manufacture has made it a practice to actually lower the base oil quality. That is, replace Group IV with Group III. What these move do isn't improve oil but rather improve profit margins and abate regulation. 

 

On to SAPS. The industry still does not have a test to quantify phosphorus levels with cat life decline. The requirement is based in chemical theory not in research driven testing. Why does that matter. 

 

Simple statement:

 

It only matters IF the power cylinder is not reasonably oil tight. 

 

The debate is over what is considered "oil tight". That is, the requirement is preemptive allowing for a lowering of that consideration! 

 

It isn't that they can not be made so but rather the path to do so isn't assured. Goes something like this.....

 

An OEM could make a cylinder oil tight and not need to require low SAPS oils but they can't assure that the public will following break in directions nor maintain in accordance with best practice so....they just assume that cooperation will be nonexistent and lower SAPS thus lowering oil life and unit life and meet regulation and let that unwilling public bear the burden of those decisions and gain a large pool of failure mode feedback again lowering my cost and enhancing cost and profits. 

 

I have two motors in my fleet that use DLH ring coatings and low tension rings. One with a good number of miles and neither uses oil between changes of moderate length. One other built in this configuration that uses oil at and at times over the OEM limit of a quart in 2K miles. It too has a large number of miles on it. 267K to be exact and it hasn't yet killed the cat. Getting close but well beyond the OEM's liability requirement. I have a pretty good idea of what works and why it does. 

 

So....I'm circling back. Oils used in my fleet of non oil burning motors and all future new motors will be Full SAPS Group IV and V based oils with a minimum shear stable 3.5 HTHS and changed at 50% VOA TBN or the crossing point of AN/BN which even is first. And If I have to, I will use a ZDDP additive. 

 

IF and when research ever returns to the lab and corruption of information to suit an agenda ever ends, I will reconsider. If not and this trend continues... I'll change oil every 500 miles if I have to. 

 

YMMV

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

3,000 Miles

 

It's what I have on the Mitsubishi this OCI and it looks phenomenal. Still amber!  

 

 

 

I'll still be changing it at 3,750 miles and sending out a sample. That is the OEM's severe schedule interval. 

[KARNUT]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

3,000 Miles

 

It's what I have on the Mitsubishi this OCI and it looks phenomenal. Still amber!  

 

 

 

I'll still be changing it at 3,750 miles and sending out a sample. That is the OEM's severe schedule interval. 

My wife’s Genesis gets under 4K oil changes as recommended by the dealer since 2011. With 100K bumper to bumper warranty I complied. My 2002 Avalanche according to the hand written maintenance records had 3K oil changes with a filter every other. The oil in both stays so clean it’s hard to see on the stick. The Odyssey our trip vehicle and bad weather mule. Yes the others are pampered and probably forever vehicles. The Odyssey was by the light since new. My daughter’s eyes glazed over when I make car suggestions. ( dad thinks he knows everything). She’s my rebel. The oil looks dirty really fast. The first year I got it I did several quick oil changes. It has cylinder deactivation, I was concerned. It does many long drives. I generally do just under 5K miles oil change. It gets dirty fast still. It’s really strange for the first time in my life I’m not looking to replace it. I know, I know. It’s a minivan. The only thing I can say you just have to drive one. I understand Grumpys attachment to his new ride. If it checks the boxes, it just does. 

[customboss]

Grumpy here's a back to the future oil you might consider that's mass produced. 

 

[customboss]

[customboss]

[customboss]

[KARNUT]

1 minute ago, customboss said:

I had a funny experience with Mobil one. My original experience was with my Trailblazer SS with the LS2 engine. It was what GM used with extended oil changes. It was the beginning of me using the dealer exclusively and not using Amsoil exclusively. The weird unexplained experience was my final oil change in my 92 Chevy truck. I found the avalanche and decided to part with my highly modified truck of 12 years. It was an oil user. 1qt every 500 miles. Being a blown stroker maybe normal? I drove it aggressively for 12 years but only put about 20K miles on it. After using all brands of oil Mobil One was the last before I sold it. Showing it to a family friend I pulled the dipstick after 500 miles on the oil. It was full. What? Being a recent rebuild from a reputable builder. Maybe it took 20K miles to break in. I didn’t follow up. It made me wonder. 

[customboss]

5 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I had a funny experience with Mobil one. My original experience was with my Trailblazer SS with the LS2 engine. It was what GM used with extended oil changes. It was the beginning of me using the dealer exclusively and not using Amsoil exclusively. The weird unexplained experience was my final oil change in my 92 Chevy truck. I found the avalanche and decided to part with my highly modified truck of 12 years. It was an oil user. 1qt every 500 miles. Being a blown stroker maybe normal? I drove it aggressively for 12 years but only put about 20K miles on it. After using all brands of oil Mobil One was the last before I sold it. Showing it to a family friend I pulled the dipstick after 500 miles on the oil. It was full. What? Being a recent rebuild from a reputable builder. Maybe it took 20K miles to break in. I didn’t follow up. It made me wonder. 

No idea. 

[Black02Silverado]

This is a better option.

 

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-z-rod-10w-30-100-synthetic-motor-oil-zrt/?zo=521390

 

Edited January 21 by Black02Silverado

[Grumpy Bear]

Soooooo.....abandon what IS working. Yea, that is a hard pass. 

 

Oh, I've done that. Wife's Paseo and her Terrain, Dizzy. Both times I allowed myself to be convinced something other than my main stream practices were in error. That the OEM knew best. That some "New Science" method, product or practice was 'BETTER". Both times an utter disaster. Almost succumbed to the noise with Pepper early on.

 

I have nothing but success and constant METRIC DRIVEN improvements when I stick to my convictions and education. 

 

I will continue to believe my lying eyes and presenting my data, thank you all for you input. 

 

 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Soooooo.....abandon what IS working. Yea, that is a hard pass. 

 

Oh, I've done that. Wife's Paseo and her Terrain, Dizzy. Both times I allowed myself to be convinced something other than my main stream practices were in error. That the OEM knew best. That some "New Science" method, product or practice was 'BETTER". Both times an utter disaster. Almost succumbed to the noise with Pepper early on.

 

I have nothing but success and constant METRIC DRIVEN improvements when I stick to my convictions and education. 

 

I will continue to believe my lying eyes and presenting my data, thank you all for you input. 

 

 

Here’s the irony of it all. API promises us backward compatibility right?  

[customboss]

2 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

This is a better option.

 

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-z-rod-10w-30-100-synthetic-motor-oil-zrt/?zo=521390

 

Agreed 

[KARNUT]

After the fun times I’ve had with some manufacturers experimenting early on. I stick with vehicles that are not so sensitive that I have to worry so much about being sold a bill of goods. That’s been pretty effective for me so far.