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Starting in 2nd gear when towing?

alkaspeltzar
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alkaspeltzar Enthusiast

alkaspeltzar

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2019 Silverado 1500 z71 with 8K miles, 3.23 rear, 8 speed.

 

Today I have towed about 8000lbs of cattle and trailer. I prior towed an old farmall tractor back.

 

Both times when towing over 6000lbs, I had the transmission in L6, tow haul mode. Sometimes when taking off from a stop, it almost felt like the truck started in 2nd, not dropping down the first. Would it do that? Or is the torque converter just being floated as RPM's rise, and possibly I am not feeling the shift from 1 to 2. This transmission is crazy smooth compared to my 6 speed.

 

Truck drives great otherwise. Ran it to town empty later, no issues.  Even ran it thru the Low mode gears, and it starts in first normally. Thought maybe this was towhaul mode trying to avoid unnecessary shifting if still rolling. Transmission running cool, never over 180 even with that load at 60-70 mph.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

flyingfool Senior Enthusiast

flyingfool

Posted
Posted (edited)

you should data log the trans next time to confirm this is happening, i know HPtuners has all the PIDS to show you whats happening durring a logged capture of the operation. 180 F is a bit warm unless your going up grades.  but if its a lease truck no worries

Edited by flyingfool
Wintersun Enthusiast

Wintersun

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Posted

180F degrees is on the low side even if not towing a heavy trailer. Tow/haul mode is recommended when the trailer and truck weight exceeds 75% of the trucks rated GCWR. Tow/haul mode will change shift points and also keep the torque converter locked longer on upshifts which is intended to minimize heat buildup with the transmission fluid. At 180 degrees this is hardly a concern. By the way the flash point with even cheap ATF is over 350 degrees. Using Range Selection mode disables Grade Braking and is not advisable with a heavy trailer.

alkaspeltzar Enthusiast

alkaspeltzar

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22 hours ago, Jav_eee said:

Just curious as to why you wouldn’t just put in in drive with tow haul?


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Becuase id rather keep it in 5th when towing heavy loads. Sometimes it bounces back and forth between 5-6. 

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alkaspeltzar Enthusiast

alkaspeltzar

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3 hours ago, Wintersun said:

180F degrees is on the low side even if not towing a heavy trailer. Tow/haul mode is recommended when the trailer and truck weight exceeds 75% of the trucks rated GCWR. Tow/haul mode will change shift points and also keep the torque converter locked longer on upshifts which is intended to minimize heat buildup with the transmission fluid. At 180 degrees this is hardly a concern. By the way the flash point with even cheap ATF is over 350 degrees. Using Range Selection mode disables Grade Braking and is not advisable with a heavy trailer.

Didn't say temp was issue, just commenting truck stayed very cool compared to my 2010 or 2014

alkaspeltzar Enthusiast

alkaspeltzar

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I see if can pull it from Drive to Low mode when driving. If I take off next time when towing, I might try that as I'll be able to see what gear it's in.

 

Also I notice while driving it empty it hoops from 1-2 so quick and smoothly, and being the ratios are very close, I don't notice it. This is most likely the case when towing

Jav_eee Enthusiast

Jav_eee

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Becuase id rather keep it in 5th when towing heavy loads. Sometimes it bounces back and forth between 5-6. 

Tow/haul is supposed to prevent that.


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flyingfool Senior Enthusiast

flyingfool

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Wintersun said:

180F degrees is on the low side even if not towing a heavy trailer. Tow/haul mode is recommended when the trailer and truck weight exceeds 75% of the trucks rated GCWR. Tow/haul mode will change shift points and also keep the torque converter locked longer on upshifts which is intended to minimize heat buildup with the transmission fluid. At 180 degrees this is hardly a concern. By the way the flash point with even cheap ATF is over 350 degrees. Using Range Selection mode disables Grade Braking and is not advisable with a heavy trailer.

at 180F its not the oil having problems, its the TECM components, plastics and all the delicate rubber seals inside  that are effected by this temperature by oxidation and loss of plasticity in those components... tow haul just disconnects the clutches in the Torque converter and might boost line pressure to clutch packs while raising shift points

Edited by flyingfool
ullose272 Enthusiast

ullose272

Posted
Posted
at 180F its not the oil having problems, its the TECM components, plastics and all the delicate rubber seals inside  that are effected by this temperature by oxidation and loss of plasticity in those components... tow haul just disconnects the clutches in the Torque converter and might boost line pressure to clutch packs while raising shift points
206-215 is considered normal operation temp, modern transmissions usually have thermostats built into the system to keep them at this temperature

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  • 2 years later...
Traperkeeper80 New Member

Traperkeeper80

Posted
Posted

My 2023 2.7 is absolutely doing this while towing 6,000 lb camper. It even does it launching on the equivalent of a boat ramp incline, from a dead stop. 
 Who is the EPA idiot at GM that thinks a 2nd gear launch with 6K is the right programing?  You can easily tell this is hard as hell on the drive line components. I have to manually shift to low, then force it to 1st gear to take off. 

Gangly Senior Enthusiast

Gangly

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On 5/23/2020 at 9:53 PM, flyingfool said:

you should data log the trans next time to confirm this is happening, i know HPtuners has all the PIDS to show you whats happening durring a logged capture of the operation. 180 F is a bit warm unless your going up grades.  but if its a lease truck no worries

180 is low, especially for towing with the 8 spd.  The transmission normally runs at 185 all day long with no load.  That transmission temperature is a good thing to see.

Gangly Senior Enthusiast

Gangly

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2020 at 10:21 AM, flyingfool said:

at 180F its not the oil having problems, its the TECM components, plastics and all the delicate rubber seals inside  that are effected by this temperature by oxidation and loss of plasticity in those components... tow haul just disconnects the clutches in the Torque converter and might boost line pressure to clutch packs while raising shift points

These transmissions are designed to run at this temperature during daily driving duty.  There is a video of the GM engineer who helped design the transmission discussing operating temperatures and the design process of the transmission, and ideal temperatures when towing were low 200's with 185-190 being ideal operating temperatures during normal use.  Degradation to seals and increased wear to components didn't occur until prolonged exposure to the mid/high 200's

Edited by Gangly

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