GM needs to step their game up!

Imcrazy · May 8, 2021

My last truck was a 2016 Silverado LT, only reason I traded it in on a 2020 was I needed a crew cab because of a growing family.. Would have really preferred a used 2018 but, prices were insane last fall on used trucks.. GM really took a major step back on interior function and style on these T1XX trucks the K2 was superior in every way from an interior function and comfort.. I think about trading my 2020 for a 2018 almost daily.. Can't bring myself to do it because it's a crap financial move and the 2020 is still a decent truck but, not like the K2 was.. The new F150 is really tempting but, to get the features I want I'd need to spend like $55k after incentives on a Lariat model where as the RST I paid $40k fr after incentives has all the features I need.. Ram looks awesome and has a better design but, reliability isn't there and I'm planning on this being a 200k mile truck so I got a Chevy and I put up with the trash interior..

TNTSierra · May 8, 2021

10 hours ago, Imcrazy said:

My last truck was a 2016 Silverado LT, only reason I traded it in on a 2020 was I needed a crew cab because of a growing family.. Would have really preferred a used 2018 but, prices were insane last fall on used trucks.. GM really took a major step back on interior function and style on these T1XX trucks the K2 was superior in every way from an interior function and comfort.. I think about trading my 2020 for a 2018 almost daily.. Can't bring myself to do it because it's a crap financial move and the 2020 is still a decent truck but, not like the K2 was.. The new F150 is really tempting but, to get the features I want I'd need to spend like $55k after incentives on a Lariat model where as the RST I paid $40k fr after incentives has all the features I need.. Ram looks awesome and has a better design but, reliability isn't there and I'm planning on this being a 200k mile truck so I got a Chevy and I put up with the trash interior..

I find it very interesting you would take a K2 over the T1. I had 3 K2s and you couldn’t pay me to go back.
The back seat now is so much larger and roomier than the older model. My 90 lb German Shepherd can lay flat on floor and 2 kids can sit comfortably on seat without bothering her. My 2018 she was cramped back there and the kids’ legs were always hitting her or resting on her. I won’t even go into how nice the rear air vents are.
as for the front interior. The layout is almost the same as the K2’s which I really like but the added functionality buttons along the bottom make for easy access to “push” instead of searching through the infotainment system like other brands.

Edited May 8, 2021 by TNTSilverado

bwoodsmn · May 8, 2021

23 hours ago, econometrics said:

You seem to think GM is the only car manufacturer that isn't cutting edge with tech and interiors.

Go drive a 2021/2022 Honda or Toyota. We just did a minivan upgrade and the Odysseys were laughably behind the Chrysler Pacifica that we bought.

Plus, tech and interior options are very subjective. I think GM has some great options for tech that the others still struggle to have (rear view camera mirror, HUD, 360 camera that is miles ahead of Dodge/Ford).

I agree with you - I just don't understand the "GM has less Tech" argument - the only thing a RAM truck has it its favor for tech is their buggy 12" iPad screen - besides that light show, there is no difference in functionality in that display than the 8" GM display and the heat controls below. GM has the camera system with towing enhancements that RAM and Ford only wish they had. I have the black/umber High County interior, and i get compliments from most everyone thats seen it.

OnTheReel · May 8, 2021

Tech-wise I think the big 3 are all pretty close to one another. And any tech feature you see in one brand of truck will be found in the others within a few years, assuming it’s any good.

GM had to catch up with Ram on a few things like ACC. Ram had to catch up with GM on a few things like the HUD and camera mirror. Ford…well who cares what they are doing. Their “new” truck looks exactly the same as the 2015.

econometrics · May 8, 2021

Just now, OnTheReel said:

Tech-wise I think the big 3 are all pretty close to one another. And any tech feature you see in one brand of truck will be found in the others within a few years, assuming it’s any good.

GM had to catch up with Ram on a few things like ACC. Ram had to catch up with GM on a few things like the HUD and camera mirror. Ford…well who cares what they are doing. Their “new” truck looks exactly the same as the 2015.

And, as much as I’m looking forward to a larger GM infotainment screen… the F150 is just too big. It completely overwhelms the whole cab. I rode in my friend’s Platinum and it almost looked circus-like odd and out of place.

The fully digital dash and power on board are the only things I think Ford did well on the new F150. Like you said, @OnTheReel, everything else is largely just copy+paste.

SVG · May 8, 2021

5 hours ago, econometrics said:

And, as much as I’m looking forward to a larger GM infotainment screen… the F150 is just too big. It completely overwhelms the whole cab. I rode in my friend’s Platinum and it almost looked circus-like odd and out of place.

The fully digital dash and power on board are the only things I think Ford did well on the new F150. Like you said, @OnTheReel, everything else is largely just copy+paste.

While I liked the Ford F-150 Platinum & limited models, I thought the all digital dash could really benefit from a different graphic design. I've had all digital displays in some German cars that really looked high tech, because they were.

Also the 12" display has a plain Jane baby blue type hue to the display. They could really dress this up with some better graphics too.

I wish I could have got a Powerboost option in my AT4.

todd308 · May 9, 2021

OP is not wrong, but you have to understand the market GM caters to, they make a very nice, solid feeling, quiet vehicle, with nice, but subtle tech, and very pavement orientated. It rides nice, the layout is well thought out for simplicity. Small SUV's get more tech/features/luxury, because they are family vehicles and families demand those features. Case in point the Toyota Rav4 gets way more tech than even the top trim 4-runner.

Also each truck brand caters to a different type of person. GM is the solid built, quiet, simple but nice interior/features. Ram was the bells and whistles king, but other companies are catching up now. GM has nothing that can even think of competing with the Raptor, TRX, GM doesn't do off road, they've proven it for decades. If they were smart they'd bring back the SS trucks. GM is also way behind in engines, even the 6.2 is slower than a 3.5 ecoboost, and the new Powerboost hybrid has more hp than the 6.2, 25% more torque, 1 second faster 0-60, AND it gets better mileage than the 3.0L. GM put it's $ into the Hummer EV, the epitome of a pavement/mall runner. It's loaded with off-road features, but an off-road vehicle that only gets 300 miles and needs a charging station is completely worthless in the backcountry.

It's no different than the 4-runner, people either love them or hate them. The people that love them, do so for the reliability and simplicity, those that hate them think they are overpriced for the lack of power/features/safety. Neither is wrong, it just depends on which side of the line you fall.

After having an AT4 for a year now I think there are valid complaints, but you have to understand the manufacturer is trying for part of a market segment. GM has never figured out real off road vehicles, Z71 like the AT4 has mostly always just been appearance packages. For me the biggest misses in the GM AT4 are:

1) 24 gal tank, it needs 30+ option in the 6.2.

2) Get rid of the rear clutch locker.

3) Seats are uncomfy, the alert 2 vibration sensors can be felt on long drives through the seat, the seats need better side bolsters, and the center console could be narrowed and seats wider. I'm 6' 180lbs, hardly wide, and I sit on the side bolsters on the bottom of the seat.

4) Interior lighting is the worst of any vehicle I've ever had aside my 76' blazer.

5) if you are going to do a lift do a real lift, not spacers, that's what kids did in high school with hockey pucks on trucks.

6) bring back the ability to run a second battery like the pre-19's had.

7) step into 2010 and put a pano-sunroof in.

8- add back in the ability to have a second battery like the pre-19's had

9) better computer controlled traction/off road modes, toyota/ford/Dodge destroy GM here, even the Yukon in 2wd and factory highway tires will go up loose steel climbs smoother with less wheel spin than the Silverado in 4wd with aftermarket off road tires.

Edited May 9, 2021 by todd308

Mandalorian · May 9, 2021

On 5/8/2021 at 10:38 AM, bwoodsmn said:

I agree with you - I just don't understand the "GM has less Tech" argument - the only thing a RAM truck has it its favor for tech is their buggy 12" iPad screen - besides that light show, there is no difference in functionality in that display than the 8" GM display and the heat controls below. GM has the camera system with towing enhancements that RAM and Ford only wish they had. I have the black/umber High County interior, and i get compliments from most everyone thats seen it.

I don't think it's a manner of GM having less tech, it's just poorly packaged compared to the competition.

swathdiver · May 9, 2021

7 hours ago, todd308 said:

...GM doesn't do off road, they've proven it for decades.

I remember a review of a 2013 Sierra Denali. The reviewers complained about it but it did everything they asked it to do off-road. Years later, they tested a Trail Boss. They complained about this one too but it did everything asked of it out in the field and while towing. Over time it grew on them and they came to appreciate it.

My old Yukon XL goes wherever it's pointed.

econometrics · May 9, 2021

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

I remember a review of a 2013 Sierra Denali. The reviewers complained about it but it did everything they asked it to do off-road. Years later, they tested a Trail Boss. They complained about this one too but it did everything asked of it out in the field and while towing. Over time it grew on them and they came to appreciate it.

My old Yukon XL goes wherever it's pointed.

You saw this clearly with TFL’s long term TB. Roman didn’t like the interior when they first put it in service, but after owning it like 12K miles (or more), it was one of their favorite vehicles in recent memory. For that very reason - it did everything they asked of it without ONE issue.

Grumpy Bear · May 10, 2021

18 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I remember a review of a 2013 Sierra Denali. The reviewers complained about it but it did everything they asked it to do off-road. Years later, they tested a Trail Boss. They complained about this one too but it did everything asked of it out in the field and while towing. Over time it grew on them and they came to appreciate it.

My old Yukon XL goes wherever it's pointed.

17 hours ago, econometrics said:

You saw this clearly with TFL’s long term TB. Roman didn’t like the interior when they first put it in service, but after owning it like 12K miles (or more), it was one of their favorite vehicles in recent memory. For that very reason - it did everything they asked of it without ONE issue.

I remember when I bought my current truck the seat was unbearable. 100 miles and my backside was done for the day. Used gel seat cushions for awhile. Eventually the seat...or my butt...broke in without breaking down and she's all day comfortable now. Like fall asleep in your favorite chair comfy.

That said the WT1 T1 I tested, that seat was so much worse and for whatever reason smaller??

econometrics · May 10, 2021

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

That said the WT1 T1 I tested, that seat was so much worse and for whatever reason smaller??

It really is smaller. The butt cushion is sort of short, and it's angled UP towards the steering column. It's hard to point it more horizontal. For me, this is the most uncomfortable part of the seat, as it does cut into your hamstrings and slow circulation. I'm 5'10", 155#, not-yet-40 and in good shape. Yet the seat does get to me on longer trips. I have to re-position a lot.

But like you, Grumps, I've gotten used to it for the most part.

Grumpy Bear · May 10, 2021

2 minutes ago, econometrics said:

It really is smaller. The butt cushion is sort of short, and it's angled UP towards the steering column. It's hard to point it more horizontal. For me, this is the most uncomfortable part of the seat, as it does cut into your hamstrings and slow circulation. I'm 5'10", 155#, not-yet-40 and in good shape. Yet the seat does get to me on longer trips. I have to re-position a lot.

But like you, Grumps, I've gotten used to it for the most part.

There as some things you never want to get use to, right?

I'm 6'1" at 215 at 67 with an arthritic back. Seats matter to me, and that one....

:idiot:

I've ridden in BAJA bugs at 100 mph across the AZ desert with fiberglass racing seats that were more comfortable.

econometrics · May 10, 2021

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

There as some things you never want to get use to, right?

I'm 6'1" at 215 at 67 with an arthritic back. Seats matter to me, and that one....

I've ridden in BAJA bugs at 100 mph across the AZ desert with fiberglass racing seats that were more comfortable.

yeah, I don't get who does R&D on new vehicle seats these days. I thought it was just a GM trucks issue, but we just bought a new Chrysler Pacifica Limited with the upgraded "Nappa leather" seats, and they aren't much more plush than my T1. And I've been in some other new vehicles lately, too, and the seats seem to have all gotten firmer.

I guess the brainiacs in Michigan know better than us common folk...

Grumpy Bear · May 10, 2021

1 minute ago, econometrics said:

yeah, I don't get who does R&D on new vehicle seats these days. I thought it was just a GM trucks issue, but we just bought a new Chrysler Pacifica Limited with the upgraded "Nappa leather" seats, and they aren't much more plush than my T1. And I've been in some other new vehicles lately, too, and the seats seem to have all gotten firmer.

I guess the brainiacs in Michigan know better than us common folk...

I have a bazillion way adjustable "Real Leather' seat in my 09 Buick. Now there's a seat!

What the brainiacs know is $$$$. This latest round of seats is GM's R&D department testing the publics tolerance for discomfort at the highest profit margins possible. Looks like they are winning too!

:dunno: