options and reasons for a gun

waumo1 · November 16, 2016

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

Best of luck with your victim and head in the sand position. I'll choose to think and operate differently.

Edited November 16, 2016 by waumo1

Cowpie · November 17, 2016

I didn't get that he was burying his head in the sand. Maybe a bit melodramatic, but within reason. There are few of us that actually have had to look in the face and pull on someone. And when faced with someone that is going to pull on you, things get more complicated than punching paper at the range. The risks do get overblown a little by those that have a motivation to garner membership in gun organizations or sell guns and ammo. And of course, there is the pendulum swinging the other direction and some folks will bury their head in the sand. As with most things, reason resides in the middle.

And many folks who suffer from enlarged paranoia glands went out and bought every round of ammo off the shelf after Obama got elected and made it difficult for reasoned folks to get the brand and type of ammo they wanted. This last several years have been ridiculous. A classic case in mass hysteria when it comes to firearms and ammo. Obama was the firearms industry's best salesman and he didn't do a thing. To some, the Apocalypse is just around the corner. And those are the folks that are not known for offering the soundest of advice. They see a bogeyman behind every tree.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Cowpie

kstruckcountry · November 17, 2016

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

In all you said, you never provided another option for self defense.....

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MikeNH · November 17, 2016

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

You think people own/carry guns because they're insecure? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Grow up.

Spurshot · November 18, 2016

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

Lots of reasons for you not to own a gun. .

Edited November 18, 2016 by spurshot

sdeeter19555 · November 18, 2016

Here's a target from another member of a gun forum. #1 buckshot from home defense short barrel. At 10 yds (30 feet) its pretty much a rifle.

I've always wondered what one of the Judge revolvers would pattern at short range, you're talking what, about two to three inches of barrel? And they make special rounds just for them that use disk-shaped shot too...

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Graphic · November 18, 2016

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

What would consider a smart reason to own a gun? Very few want to shoot anyone that just walks into our houses. The Florida scenario you mention above is a rarity and cherry picked to try and prove your point. The figure on suicides is inaccurate. The figure is more along 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides. I do not care about suicides. They should have no bearing on this argument. Truly suicidal people will find a way to kill themselves.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

Depends who you are serving the warrant on. SWAT has been around since the mid 60's. It's nothing new. Grenades? Come on... No policemen are throwing frag grenades in to serve a warrant. Where did you get this jewel of information? Flash-bangs maybe? Again, you are regurgitating the liberal, anti-gun mantras word for word here... There are occasions where police error, or blatantly kill innocents. These are exceedingly rare, not routine. Don't fall for the sensationalism so prevalent in today's "media." They are STILL trying to figure out how they managed to not call the election correctly.

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

In all honesty, you lost me here. Are we talking about stupid gun owners, dumb fat people, terrible drives or idiotic smokers? Only Black people in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Arizona or New Jersey should reasonably fear for their lives? "A person getting attacked in a city of one million..." Nice of you to dismiss him or her, but I bet they think their life is fairly important. Maybe they want it to continue. I can't tell if you are saying that life is unimportant compared to the thousands dying due to sugar, smoke or bad driving, or that the threat is smaller. If you want to just talk about the numbers, please refer to the amount of gun deaths you mentioned above, then take out suicides, verified self defense cases, justified police shootings, etc. You'll see that following the same logic and math you used here only weakens your argument.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

Guns appeal to all sorts of people... White people, black people, skinny people, fat people. Male, female and maybe some in-between people. Probably some cowboys and some indians. Hell, even some Arabic, Muslim, Christian and Jewish people like their guns.

2 million homes... Well, a lot of that was preventable. Both by the banking industry, the government and the people buying the homes. You cannot just blame the banking industry. You have to blame weakened regulations dictated by our government, a greedy banking industry and far too many people buying homes they knew they couldn't afford. A foreclosure will also not take their lives. Absolutely agree with you that we are all more at risk from a drunk driver than from "some idiot with a gun." So we try to buy safe cars, drive defensively and look out for the other guy. I guess if ever confronted with a life/death self defense situation we should hope for the best? No thank you.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

Your opening statement, coupled with this paragraph to close your post is really what prompted me to respond. I don't think you or anyone else should be made to carry a gun, own a gun or even look at a gun. I will not ridicule anyone who simply does not like them, hates them, is scared of them. I will however take exception and respond to those such as yourself that will demean, ridicule and insult those that do chose to own or carry for self-defense. This is a right in our country. Period.

I do not carry all the time. I hope I never have to use it, really. But if I ever need it I hope I have it.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Graphic

Spurshot · December 16, 2016

Interesting posts! I agree with lots that's been said.

I'm still not sure what would make me feel safe again.

A while ago I went into a gun shop (with someone) and I was kinda shocked about two things. First of all the guy behind the

counter said they have been busy like crazy. Second of all the age of the customers in store at this moment was max mid-twenty, likely younger.

(Not only) In my area is so much going on and I stopped watching the news because I'm sick of it!!

I'm starting to think that I have to get used to not feeling safe.

I think you will only feel safe again when you gain confidence in your ability to protect yourself. You have a conscious choice to make: Do nothing and accept that you can be an easy victim, or learn to protect yourself and act on it. A gun is just a piece of a protection plan. A home alarm system, a dog, a gun, CCW permit, etc., are just tools for that. Planning how you leave a late night event before you go in is probably more important than carrying a gun that night.

Boardmember · December 19, 2016

Weeks ago, I travelled two states away. I checked in advance and both had reciprocity agreements with my state's CCW licensing. I have that but do not ever carry.

On the way home I needed gas and stopped at a "top tier" station off the interstate and it was horribly sketchy. So I put my Glock on the driver's seat. Sure enough some gentleman looked me over and began to approach. He was checking me out and asked me if I had a light. "No man, I don't smoke." He wandered away.

Was I comfortably secure? Yea. Did it have anything to do with my knowledge that I could proactively defend myself if required? Yep. And might I have conveyed a non-vulnerable image to the gentleman? Maybe.

I concluded my transaction, got in the truck, put the 43 back in the console and rode off into the sunset. Cowboy. Nah.

Jimhardc · January 12, 2017

I would suggest if you choose a gun and take a course for how to use it and when to use it. Get yourself as familiar with your firearm as you know your car keys (you don't need to look every time you get your car keys out to see which one is for the car) Now as some courses can be very expensive you may just need to spend as much time at the range as possible and keep it up keep yourself fresh and familiar with your firearm. Also don't just buy the prettiest firearm you see spend a lot hours if necessary with the clerk and find the one that fits your hand and is not too heavy. This info is just the tip of the iceberg so do your research. I hope this helps

kilowhiskey · January 13, 2017

Self defense is a stupid reason to own a gun. If someone walks into your house and you shoot them the odds are that it will be a friend or relative or first responder, as with the two Florida cops that were in bed when they woke up with someone in the house and emptied both their clips only to learn that it was the mother of one of the officers. Fortunately they were not good shots and so mom survived. Half of gun deaths are suicides where the availability of a firearm turns depression into death.

What would consider a smart reason to own a gun? Very few want to shoot anyone that just walks into our houses. The Florida scenario you mention above is a rarity and cherry picked to try and prove your point. The figure on suicides is inaccurate. The figure is more along 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides. I do not care about suicides. They should have no bearing on this argument. Truly suicidal people will find a way to kill themselves.

There is a reason why the police are relying on SWAT teams and grenades even to serve a warrant on an individual in their home and if that unfortunate person had a gun in their hand they would be dead in an instant. Even people without guns are routinely shot down by the cops so why give them an excuse or easy out by possessing a gun?

Depends who you are serving the warrant on. SWAT has been around since the mid 60's. It's nothing new. Grenades? Come on... No policemen are throwing frag grenades in to serve a warrant. Where did you get this jewel of information? Flash-bangs maybe? Again, you are regurgitating the liberal, anti-gun mantras word for word here... There are occasions where police error, or blatantly kill innocents. These are exceedingly rare, not routine. Don't fall for the sensationalism so prevalent in today's "media." They are STILL trying to figure out how they managed to not call the election correctly.

The problem is that people have a greatly exaggerated notion of the danger present. If you are black person in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Florida or Arizona or New Jersey then yes you are at risk. But if you read about a person getting attacked in a city of one million people you are not reading about the 1,000 people that died in that same city who were killed by tobacco or sugar or stupidity behind the wheel of a car. Over 440,000 people are killed each and every year, year after year, in the USA from tobacco but no one is buying oxygen tanks and face masks to avoid second hand smoke.

In all honesty, you lost me here. Are we talking about stupid gun owners, dumb fat people, terrible drives or idiotic smokers? Only Black people in Ferguson or Oakland or Los Angeles or Arizona or New Jersey should reasonably fear for their lives? "A person getting attacked in a city of one million..." Nice of you to dismiss him or her, but I bet they think their life is fairly important. Maybe they want it to continue. I can't tell if you are saying that life is unimportant compared to the thousands dying due to sugar, smoke or bad driving, or that the threat is smaller. If you want to just talk about the numbers, please refer to the amount of gun deaths you mentioned above, then take out suicides, verified self defense cases, justified police shootings, etc. You'll see that following the same logic and math you used here only weakens your argument.

Guns appeal to people who like black and white solutions and who watched cowboy movies and Rambo and think that all one has to do is have a gun and they are safe from the bad guys. Tell that to the more than 2 million American families that lost their homes thanks to bank load fraud and robo foreclosure notices from companies like Wells Fargo. You are far more at risk from the bankers with their pens and their greed than from some individual with a knife or a gun. More at risk from a careless or drunk driver than from some idiot with a gun.

Guns appeal to all sorts of people... White people, black people, skinny people, fat people. Male, female and maybe some in-between people. Probably some cowboys and some indians. Hell, even some Arabic, Muslim, Christian and Jewish people like their guns.

2 million homes... Well, a lot of that was preventable. Both by the banking industry, the government and the people buying the homes. You cannot just blame the banking industry. You have to blame weakened regulations dictated by our government, a greedy banking industry and far too many people buying homes they knew they couldn't afford. A foreclosure will also not take their lives. Absolutely agree with you that we are all more at risk from a drunk driver than from "some idiot with a gun." So we try to buy safe cars, drive defensively and look out for the other guy. I guess if ever confronted with a life/death self defense situation we should hope for the best? No thank you.

When my brother was an infant he took great comfort from a stuffed toy cat. He even took it into the bathtub when my mother would bathe him. He outgrew that need but some people never do and need the comfort of a gun to feel safe. It may work but it is still pathetic when you think about it.

Your opening statement, coupled with this paragraph to close your post is really what prompted me to respond. I don't think you or anyone else should be made to carry a gun, own a gun or even look at a gun. I will not ridicule anyone who simply does not like them, hates them, is scared of them. I will however take exception and respond to those such as yourself that will demean, ridicule and insult those that do chose to own or carry for self-defense. This is a right in our country. Period.

I do not carry all the time. I hope I never have to use it, really. But if I ever need it I hope I have it.

Your first sentence is wrong. Self defense is literally one of the biggest reasons to own a firearm. Also its called a magazine, not a damn clip.

Graphic · January 14, 2017

Your first sentence is wrong. Self defense is literally one of the biggest reasons to own a firearm. Also its called a magazine, not a damn clip.

I was quoting a previous post. Kept messing up the quote function, so I bold faced the original post text. First post is his. Every other paragraph is mine and the last 2. It showed up right on the PC (at least it did), but Tapatalk doesn't bold. Edited January 14, 2017 by Graphic

kilowhiskey · January 14, 2017

I was quoting a previous post. Kept messing up the quote function, so I bold faced the original post text. Every other paragraph is mine. It showed up right on the PC (at least it did), but Tapatalk doesn't bold.

Ah, makes sense then! I saw you were in the marines and a lot of those answers were very counterpart answers of what a marine would say. Now it all makes sense.

Cowpie · January 14, 2017

While defense of life an property is indeed a major reason to own a firearm, or several, how much the risk is of needing one and what type is also a consideration. I had a CCL for 5 years but I never carried one time in that interval. So I let it lapse. I have a couple of shotguns and several rifles at home, along with a .45 auto. I really don't feel the need to have any of them with me when I am out and about. I have carried one of the rifles in the pickup out checking property occasionally. My wife recently went and got her CCL, mostly at the prodding of my step daughter, yet she still hasn't gone out and scouted for a suitable handgun.

There is always the risk to anything in life. There is always a risk of being in a major accident, but I don't feel the need to have a cage and all the protective stuff like a NASCAR auto to protect me. I don't live in a high crime area but a rural area, so I don't feel the need to be packing everywhere I go. Sure, there is always a chance that someone might want to do a shoot up somewhere, but the risks of that in my area are pretty remote.

if it makes you feel safer and you feel motivated to carry, and carry in your vehicle, then by all means go for it.

Clips are used in M1 Garands (one of my favorite firearms) and that is where the term "clip" got ingrained in pop terminology. Those rifles served in 3 of our wars and millions of service members had exposure to them. Everything else gets magazines. So damn clips are a valid comment, just depends on the firearm being discussed. I am quite sure the police were not using Garands.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Cowpie