0/20 oil spec?

[diyer2]

wacko

Are you saying that at 150 K miles you switched to 5w30 and got another 50K miles.

You put in a new motor and are using 5w30 in it?

[bshort]

I'll only keep this truck 3 years, so I think I'll be fine using whatever....even Super Tech or Amazon basic 

[wacko]

I switched at 140,000 to 5/30 and usage was reduced initially.  I am also using 5/30 from the beginning on the new engine.

 

These 2-stage oil pumps are all about efficiency and allow the use of the thinner oils.  It’s all about efficiency... that’s why we have AFM/DFM, electric steering, the 2-stage oil pump also helps...  I could care less what oil people are using.  The 2-stage oil pumps are standard issue in how they convey oil and using a minimal viscosity change is not going to make a difference.  It is going to help on the bearings throughout the engine...  200k on a stock engine is reasonable but my last engine the LLY  Duramax went 390k and ran well when I sold it.  If you’re not going to put high miles on the engine run the stock oil.  I don’t tow and hardly ever haul heavy loads.  My service records are impeccable.  When a failure occurs it is typically good to change something in order stop future failures.  I chose a viscosity change.

 

of note:  I have noticed that the new engine hits the second stage (increased oil pressure) quicker (lower rpms). This could be the cause of the failure and solved with the new engine.  

 

 

[HondaHawkGT]

Think of it this way: The 2019 Camaro's 6.2 specs 0W40. There's nothing different about that engine compared to the truck engines aside from a few minor things that have nothing to do with the internals of the engine. I've ran 5W30 in the past without a problem. There's nothing wrong with 0W20. Gone Fishing has tons of used oil analysis with 0W20 and they looked great. It won't be any different for a DFM engine.

[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 11:05 AM, OnTheReel said:

I’m not exactly sure what you’re arguing for, or against, but in all of that post, you’ve yet to show me any indication that running 5w30 or anything else outside of recommended will give a longer engine life. This was the root of the OP’s question and you’ve got nothing.

Rational thought. That's what I argue for. I'm not in the mood for mindless bickering. So.....let go back to the OP's question and it wasn't about longevity. It was about requirement. 

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 7:53 AM, bshort said:

Any idea why the 6.2 oil spec is 0/20, besides the same 'ol line about that being what the engineers spec'd.  Does the DFM require it? Something else?  Or is it just CAFE? 

 

0/20 will shear and DI engines are known for fuel dilution.  What are your thoughts? 

No...the DFM does not require it. It functions over a wide range of viscosities. The oils viscosity changes with temperature. Temperature changes with load and speed and weather and dilution and and and.....Oil's primary function in the motor is not hydraulics....it's hydrodynamics. Viscosity is chosen for hydrodynamics.  It is chosen for an expected MINIMUM viscosity that may be seen during the life of the oil. THIER expected life. Evidently that number is really small as they find 240 F 'normal' while running a 0W20. It requires a MINIMUM USED OIL viscosity. Rational thought? Change you oil. 

 

Two different issues.  All oils shear and shear does cause a viscosity change and it is always lower. Oxidation causes a viscosity change as well and that is always higher. Dilution does not cause a shear related viscosity reduction. It is a dilution related viscosity reduction. Rational thought? Change your oil.

 

Those are MY thoughts. If you don't agree...Great! But you didn't ask for them....did you OnTheReel? 

 

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 11:26 AM, TXGREEK said:

Please don’t get Grumpy started lol

Easy TXGREEK, my dance card if full. 

 

10 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Think of it this way: The 2019 Camaro's 6.2 specs 0W40. There's nothing different about that engine compared to the truck engines aside from a few minor things that have nothing to do with the internals of the engine. I've ran 5W30 in the past without a problem. There's nothing wrong with 0W20. Gone Fishing has tons of used oil analysis with 0W20 and they looked great. It won't be any different for a DFM engine.

Ah...Rational thought!! Not so hard, right? 

 

Where were you earlier Hawk? 

[diyer2]

Lets keep it simple.

0w20 to 5w30 is not a big difference.

0w20 to 20w50 is a big difference.

[OnTheReel]

28 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Rational thought. That's what I argue for. I'm not in the mood for mindless bickering. So.....let go back to the OP's question and it wasn't about longevity. It was about requirement. 

No...the DFM does not require it. It functions over a wide range of viscosities. The oils viscosity changes with temperature. Temperature changes with load and speed and weather and dilution and and and.....Oil's primary function in the motor is not hydraulics....it's hydrodynamics. Viscosity is chosen for hydrodynamics.  It is chosen for an expected MINIMUM viscosity that may be seen during the life of the oil. THIER expected life. Evidently that number is really small as they find 240 F 'normal' while running a 0W20. It requires a MINIMUM USED OIL viscosity. Rational thought? Change you oil. 

 

Two different issues.  All oils shear and shear does cause a viscosity change and it is always lower. Oxidation causes a viscosity change as well and that is always higher. Dilution does not cause a shear related viscosity reduction. It is a dilution related viscosity reduction. Rational thought? Change your oil.

 

Those are MY thoughts. If you don't agree...Great! But you didn't ask for them....did you OnTheReel? 

 

Easy TXGREEK, my dance card if full. 

 

Ah...Rational thought!! Not so hard, right? 

 

Where were you earlier Hawk? 

Internet must be back up and running at the retirement castle, took you awhile. Rational thought is running what’s in the owner’s manual, unless you’re going to warranty his engine after using something outside of recommended. Keyboard engineering is saying another weight “should be fine” “should be better” etc with no evidence to back it up.

 

The OP asked about shearing and fuel dilution, so we both can agree that engine longevity is the reason he asked, you’re just being pig-headed. What other reason does anyone ask about engine oil? What other purpose does oil serve? And what evidence do you have that running any other oil is better for the engine long term?

 

Nothing I said in my first post was controversial. I suggested differing to the engineers and the owners manual. But you picked it out and called me up personally, again, so surely you did ask for my opinion Grumpy. 

 

Also, just some rational thought...does the 2019 Camaro have start/stop? If not, that’s one huge thing that will differ internally and therefore with the oil requirements. As I’m sure rational thinkers like Grumpy know, the bearings on start/stop motors are coated / treated differently. Tolerances may or may not be different. Just because the engine is the same displacement doesn’t mean any of the internals even have the same PN, let alone oil requirements. So in this case, what’s rational Grumpy? Assuming everything is the same between the engines and running 0w40? Or using what’s in the damned owner’s manual rather than thinking you know better!

[UGADawgs]

Is there anything wrong with 0-20? Most vehicles are running it today. Been using it for years in our other two vehicles. Both have over 100k currently without issues. I'm personally debating Pennzoil vs Mobil vs Walmart Super Tech. I doubt it really matters in the end. 

[TXGREEK]

Internet must be back up and running at the retirement castle, took you awhile. Rational thought is running what’s in the owner’s manual, unless you’re going to warranty his engine after using something outside of recommended. Keyboard engineering is saying another weight “should be fine” “should be better” etc with no evidence to back it up.

 

The OP asked about shearing and fuel dilution, so we both can agree that engine longevity is the reason he asked, you’re just being pig-headed. What other reason does anyone ask about engine oil? What other purpose does oil serve? And what evidence do you have that running any other oil is better for the engine long term?

 

Nothing I said in my first post was controversial. I suggested differing to the engineers and the owners manual. But you picked it out and called me up personally, again, so surely you did ask for my opinion Grumpy. 

 

Also, just some rational thought...does the 2019 Camaro have start/stop? If not, that’s one huge thing that will differ internally and therefore with the oil requirements. As I’m sure rational thinkers like Grumpy know, the bearings on start/stop motors are coated / treated differently. Tolerances may or may not be different. Just because the engine is the same displacement doesn’t mean any of the internals even have the same PN, let alone oil requirements. So in this case, what’s rational Grumpy? Assuming everything is the same between the engines and running 0w40? Or using what’s in the damned owner’s manual rather than thinking you know better!

What’s in the owner manual is proven scientifically through highly trained “real” engineers not working on assumptions rather years of experience under their belts knowing better because they’re the ones that built the damn motors in the first place, through success and failures and what works best in order to achieve longer life spans for the engines they’ve created. I find it hysterical how a few in these forums babble on and try to rewrite the specs in an owner manual.

Personally, I think there’s a lot of BS assumptions in these forums and it’s a dangerous direction to follow. IMHO, I use only Amsoil and this is only my personal experience, noticing a smoother running engine is proof for me specially being that it’s real 100% synthetic and not that misleading “Full Synthetic” and stick to what’s in the owners manual.

In addition, anyone in these forums that think they’re smarter than the ones that built these motors, I’d appreciate you sending your thoughts to the auto manufacturers engineers and please make sure to post their replies.


Sent from above

[RyanbabZ71]

Think of it this way: The 2019 Camaro's 6.2 specs 0W40. There's nothing different about that engine compared to the truck engines aside from a few minor things that have nothing to do with the internals of the engine. I've ran 5W30 in the past without a problem. There's nothing wrong with 0W20. Gone Fishing has tons of used oil analysis with 0W20 and they looked great. It won't be any different for a DFM engine.

The 18s with the same engine call for 5w-30. I switched to 0W-40 on my last oil change mainly because mine will be tracked this year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Daverado]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:35 AM, TXGREEK said:

What’s in the owner manual is proven scientifically through highly trained “real” engineers not working on assumptions rather years of experience under their belts knowing better because they’re the ones that built the damn motors in the first place, through success and failures and what works best in order to achieve longer life spans for the engines they’ve created. I find it hysterical how a few in these forums babble on and try to rewrite the specs in an owner manual.

Personally, I think there’s a lot of BS assumptions in these forums and it’s a dangerous direction to follow. IMHO, I use only Amsoil and this is only my personal experience, noticing a smoother running engine is proof for me specially being that it’s real 100% synthetic and not that misleading “Full Synthetic” and stick to what’s in the owners manual.

In addition, anyone in these forums that think they’re smarter than the ones that built these motors, I’d appreciate you sending your thoughts to the auto manufacturers engineers and please make sure to post their replies.


Sent from above

What's in the manual is written by technical writers, not by engineers.  It is informed by the engine designers, filtered through marketing communications or the product development organization, and finally approved by the business.

 

It is not a purely technical document, and it's intent is not to convey what is absolutely best for the product performance.  It is intended to convey what is best for the business.  What is best for the business is profit.  Depending on the business climate that may be short-term or long-term profit.

 

In many cases what is best for the business and what is best for product performance coincide.  In those cases the customer wins.  In other cases the business develops a product with planned obsolescence as the goal.  To ensure future long-term repeat customers and profit, and not produce a product that lasts forever and never has repeat customers.

 

In most cases customers get a quality balance.  The product has to last long enough that the customer is convinced it is quality enough to purchase again.  Poor perceived quality loses customers.  Perfect quality also loses customers.

 

So the maintenance guidelines are generally intended to allow the product to fulfill the terms of the warranty contract at a minimum.  At some point after that commitment the company doesn't really want the product to last forever though.

 

[newdude]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:30 PM, HondaHawkGT said:

Think of it this way: The 2019 Camaro's 6.2 specs 0W40. There's nothing different about that engine compared to the truck engines aside from a few minor things that have nothing to do with the internals of the engine. I've ran 5W30 in the past without a problem. There's nothing wrong with 0W20. Gone Fishing has tons of used oil analysis with 0W20 and they looked great. It won't be any different for a DFM engine.

 

The amount of vehicles sold is a big difference.  GM will pump out 800,000-1,000,000 trucks per year vs. 60,000-80,000 Camaros.  Majority of those trucks are V8.  Efficiency scores for CAFE/EPA matter on those high volume vehicles, hence the push for fuel efficiency in lubricants/oils/AFM/DFM/EPS/Electronic Brake Boost Assist/0w20, etc.  Notice the lower volume 4.3 takes 5w30? 

Edited April 23, 2019 by newdude

[Grumpy Bear]

On 4/23/2019 at 2:04 PM, Daverado said:

What's in the manual is written by technical writers, not by engineers.  It is informed by the engine designers, filtered through marketing communications or the product development organization, and finally approved by the business.

 

It is not a purely technical document, and it's intent is not to convey what is absolutely best for the product performance.  It is intended to convey what is best for the business. What is best for the business is profit.  Depending on the business climate that may be short-term or long-term profit.

 

In many cases what is best for the business and what is best for product performance coincide.  In those cases the customer wins.  In other cases the business develops a product with planned obsolescence as the goal.  To ensure future long-term repeat customers and profit, and not produce a product that lasts forever and never has repeat customers.

 

In most cases customers get a quality balance.  The product has to last long enough that the customer is convinced it is quality enough to purchase again.  Poor perceived quality loses customers.  Perfect quality also loses customers.

 

So the maintenance guidelines are generally intended to allow the product to fulfill the terms of the warranty contract at a minimum.  At some point after that commitment the company doesn't really want the product to last forever though.

 

An example of rational thought.  

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by txab

[wizard4878]

On 4/18/2019 at 8:53 AM, bshort said:

Any idea why the 6.2 oil spec is 0/20, besides the same 'ol line about that being what the engineers spec'd.  Does the DFM require it? Something else?  Or is it just CAFE?  

0/20 will shear and DI engines are known for fuel dilution.  What are your thoughts? 

to answer your question,  I think that you should use whatever you are most comfortable with using,  after all,  it's your truck and your money.  If you want my 2 cents, I go with what the manufacturer recommends, at least as long as the warranty remains,  just to help avoid issue's if there is an oil related problem.  With proper documentation the warranty people can't "easily" put the blame on you for not using what they recommend.  Again, that's just my 2 cents, everyone has a different way of thinking...

[Carpenter Mike]

How would the "warranty department" know what oil viscosity you used? I also find myself doubting the wisdom of 0-20 weight oil. It sure seems thin as water when I do an oil change, and super black after only 3000 miles....