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New bulletin/Campaign 6.2 L87

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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think the thing that I find most interesting is GM has been aware of some sort of potential issues on a swath of Gen 5 small block.

 

I've linked 3 below.  

 

PIP5308B SES Light P0521 P06DD And Low Oil Pressure - 14-18 L83 and L86

 

MC-10206733-9999.pdf - diag tip

 

23-NA-170 1..3 -  This condition may be caused by a crankshaft bearing failure and/or possible damaged thrust bearing.

 

 

Mind you, engines like the LT1, LT4, L8T, LV1 and LV3 found in that last one 23-NA-170 use 5w30 or 0w40 oils.  So to me, this all seems to be a quality issue along the way somewhere.  Bearing supplier issue, rod machining issue, crank machining issue, block machining, engine assembly, etc.  

 

 

Edited by newdude
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Snow White
Snow White

the real issue here is Metaldyne Performance Group who supplies most of the powdered metal forged and machined rods ASSEMBLED by Tonawanda.  As recent as 2021, JD Norman Industries sued Metaldyne over

newdude
newdude

Update(s)   GM sent dealers a new special tool to use with an existing tool, the Picoscope (fancy high end oscilloscope plus a whole bunch of other fun stuff it can do).  Its a knock sensor

newdude
newdude

EDIT:  Linking an earlier version of the recall here that's from this very thread:   https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=182274&key=25bd8ff5fd2a227a

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, PunchT37 said:

Don`t the 5.3`s and the 6.6`s use these same rods? They seem to be the same on the gm powertrain website specs.

From above even if they did if you are not level in the block for the crank its gonna tear up and eat the bearings fast. 

PunchT37 Enthusiast

PunchT37

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

No.  And i think you mean 6.2 as the 6.6 has a longer stroke. 

 

All 3 engines have their own p/n connecting rods so that would indicate to me they are not the same.

 

5.3 uses rod p/n 12649190, 6.2 uses rod p/n 12714549 and 6.6 uses p/n 12675746. 

 

5.3 and 6.2 both do have a 92mm stroke but don't use the same p/n rods.  6.6 is 98mm stroke.  

 

The p/n 12714549 6.2 rod is used in LT1 2014-current, L86 2014-2018, L87 2019-current and the LT2 2020-current.  

 

The 12649190 rod in the 5.3 believe it or not is in a whole bunch of LS engines and then the LT based L83, L82 and L84.  Serviceability dates back to 2004 LS1 and LS6, 2010-2015 LS3 and L99 6.2, 06-09 LS4 5.3, LS2 and then a slew of LS 5.3s from 04-14.  Might explain the lack of 5.3 bottom end failures on the L82 and L84?  

 

6.6 rod is exclusive to the 6.6 L8T.  

 

 

 

 

That`s what iv`e been trying to figure out. The 5.3 to 6.2 failure ratio.

JP642 Enthusiast

JP642

Posted
Posted

Is the DTC P0016 code going to show up on regular code scanners or it is tied to a specific GM subsystem that only dealer scanners can access?

I would assume it is a "global" code but I have a cheap, basic scanner and see nothing?

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled viscosity debate ...

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BainMan Enthusiast

BainMan

Posted
Posted

Were there changes from from 2020 to 2021 on the L87? Why aren't the 2019-2020 model years included in this recall? 

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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JP642 said:

Is the DTC P0016 code going to show up on regular code scanners or it is tied to a specific GM subsystem that only dealer scanners can access?

I would assume it is a "global" code but I have a cheap, basic scanner and see nothing?

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled viscosity debate ...

 

 

Any code reader that can pull ECM codes can read it.  P0016 is a universal OBD II diagnostic code that is one of many that all auto manufacturers use for OBD II protocol.  

 

P0016 is Crankshaft Position - Intake Camshaft Position Not Plausible. 

newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, BainMan said:

Were there changes from from 2020 to 2021 on the L87? Why aren't the 2019-2020 model years included in this recall? 

 

 

My only guess here is this 21-24 issue came as a result of some sort of change, either in quality or supplier or something like that.  

newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PunchT37 said:

That`s what iv`e been trying to figure out. The 5.3 to 6.2 failure ratio.

 

 

Far enough less to not warrant a recall.  We've replaced 4 6.2s so far, one truck is currently getting its 3rd engine.  We have done no 5.3.s.  Our sister store has done 3 or 4 6.2s as well.  This is in the past 12-18 months? 

 

Are all of them bad?  Possibly not, but its big enough of an issue to warrant this recall.    

Edited by newdude
BainMan Enthusiast

BainMan

Posted
Posted

Mine as well, I just can't find a part # change to prove it.. The cutoff is right around COVID, but I can't imagine it lined up perfectly with a model year cutover.. 

BainMan Enthusiast

BainMan

Posted
Posted

 

14 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

My only guess here is this 21-24 issue came as a result of some sort of change, either in quality or supplier or something like that.  

Mine as well, I just can't find a part # change to prove it.. The cutoff is right around COVID, but I can't imagine it lined up perfectly with a model year cutover.. 

 

 

MrLeadFoot Enthusiast

MrLeadFoot

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Any code reader that can pull ECM codes can read it.  P0016 is a universal OBD II diagnostic code that is one of many that all auto manufacturers use for OBD II protocol.  

 

P0016 is Crankshaft Position - Intake Camshaft Position Not Plausible. 

Will this code throw the SES light, or just be a stored code? 

JP642 Enthusiast

JP642

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Any code reader that can pull ECM codes can read it.  P0016 is a universal OBD II diagnostic code that is one of many that all auto manufacturers use for OBD II protocol.  

 

P0016 is Crankshaft Position - Intake Camshaft Position Not Plausible. 

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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MrLeadFoot said:

Will this code throw the SES light, or just be a stored code? 

 

 

Yes light on most likely.  Crank-cam position not plausible seems like it would set from lower end resistance aka the bearings spinning or welding to the crank causing lockup.  

Snow White Enthusiast

Snow White

Posted
Posted (edited)

you can get a P0016 from an out of round or out of alignment crank with bearings on the way out from rod bearings beating oblong, this is what they are looking for.  I'd expect to see a leak at the seal but not always.  The engine will rotate fine but it'll basically have a wobble in the crank or be out of round and the sensor won't line up to get a signal.  Engine could run thousands of miles like that or die at the next revolution depending on the state of the failed rod bearing (and subsequent thrust or main bearings) either or.  As @newdude mentioned, there's been issues with main bearings and i believe thrust bearings or lifters failing to send metal into the system but the true determination upon investigation is the rod bearing bore diameter if you can get one that's failing before it cracks the cheap powder metal forged rod.  oh, there's also been some piston wrist pin clip failures.

Edited by butzers09silverado
MrLeadFoot Enthusiast

MrLeadFoot

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Yes light on most likely.  Crank-cam position not plausible seems like it would set from lower end resistance aka the bearings spinning or welding to the crank causing lockup.  

So, it sounds like the "inspection" called for by the recall doesn't mean much, then.

 

I mean, if the SES light is not on, then the code hasn't been thrown and I get 0w-40 oil put in. Using a scanner to look for a thrown code isn't much of an inspection. It would be a true "inspection" if they were to actually look at the areas where damage might be occurring, such as the crankshaft journals, which requires at least dropping the oil pan. On the other hand, if the SES light IS on due to the P0016 code having been thrown, then it's too late, no inspection needed, and I would likely need a motor instead. Shoulda bought a diesel. Figures.

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