E85/E70 vs. Winter Blend 87 Octane

govener71 · December 22, 2013

I am curious to know if there would be any benefit to using E85, E70 I guess in winter, instead of using the winter blend 87 octane? I know I get poor gas mileage in the winter on my 5.3 simply because of the way they are set up and the winter blend of gas. But would it be of any benefit for me to use E85/E70? I am not sure if would be even worse or if it would be the same or better. Thoughts or opinions?

I am sure a lot of this is hypothetical until I try it on my pickup but it might be worth a shot to see what happens.

I live in Michigan, grand rapids area, where it has been between 32 F and 8 F lately if that helps at all. Its an 06 silverado 5.3l Flex Fuel Crew Cab with stock winter wheels.

Cowpie · December 22, 2013

The ONLY benefit of using one fuel over the other is the cost per mile of operation. Don't be like some who have only a myopic view and see mpg number only. Look at the cost between the fuels, then factor that into the mpg values and see what your actual cost per mile is.

For instance, I will use E85 most of the summer, because the cost differential between E85, E10, and Regular is such that, even with the lower mpg number I get with E85, the actual cost per mile of operation is cheaper. In the winter, in my area, the cost spread is not as great, so using E10 is more cost effective and that is what I use.

That is why I like a flex fuel vehicle. I can pick and choose what fuel will give me the cheapest cost per mile at any given time. And it does fluctuate, so one has to be on their toes and break out the calculator occasionally.

In the winter, regardless of fuel, you are going to take a mpg hit. Denser air, colder engine starts, etc, etc, etc. There are a lot of variables. You just have to run a couple of tanks of each type of fuel and get a base line on what each fuel gives you for mpg. Then you can do your cost benefit calculations.

MikeNH · December 22, 2013

The cost per mile will never be in your favor on E85 vs regular/87. I found in my truck it needs to be 70-75 cents cheaper. But you'll pick up a little power which to me is worth the trade off.

Cowpie · December 22, 2013

Really. E85 will never be in your favor? Ok let's take last summer with my Silverado.....

E85 was going for $2.86 a gallon. E10 was going for $3.86 a gallon. Regular gas was a dime higher than that.

Ok. The Silverado was getting 14 mpg on E85 for a net cost per mile of ballpark 20.5 cents a mile.

The same Silverado, got around 17 mpg on gas, for a net cost of ballpark 23 cents a mile.

That shows, that when the price spread is good enough, it can be more cost effective to use E85 over regular gas. This kind of thing is seasonal and also regional. Some areas, the cost spread never reaches a stage where it is more cost effective to use E85. In that case, don't use the stuff. But just looking at mpg numbers, without doing the extra step of calculating the cost per mile, could be costing more. I know we all like those high mpg numbers, but I would rather spend 20.5 cents a mile even though I am getting lower mpg numbers than I would spend 23 cents a mile.

MikeNH · December 22, 2013

Really. E85 will never be in your favor? Ok let's take last summer with my Silverado.....

E85 was going for $2.86 a gallon. E10 was going for $3.86 a gallon. Regular gas was a dime higher than that.

Ok. The Silverado was getting 14 mpg on E85 for a net cost per mile of ballpark 20.5 cents a mile.

The same Silverado, got around 17 mpg on gas, for a net cost of ballpark 23 cents a mile.

That shows, that when the price spread is good enough, it can be more cost effective to use E85 over regular gas. This kind of thing is seasonal and also regional. Some areas, the cost spread never reaches a stage where it is more cost effective to use E85. In that case, don't use the stuff. But just looking at mpg numbers, without doing the extra step of calculating the cost per mile, could be costing more. I know we all like those high mpg numbers, but I would rather spend 20.5 cents a mile even though I am getting lower mpg numbers than I would spend 23 cents a mile.

My post was directed to the OP. Michigan gas prices suck and E85 will not be advantageous to 87 octane with our prices.

desrtrat · December 22, 2013

with your temps there, you "may" find some cold start issues with E85. with 75-85% alcohol it may take a bit longer for start up, and getting to operating temp due to the lower VE than E10 or straight gas.

TooTall1 · December 22, 2013

I use ethanol free 89 octane year 'round. No corn squeezins in my truck!

00Silverado4x4 · December 22, 2013

My truck does take a slight loss of mpg on e85 but it does seem to run a little stronger. Also the engine doesn't ping at WOT like when on regular. Plus I like that the price of e85 doesn't swing as far/fast as regular. E85 hasn't ever been cost effective in my area either but I don't care. I'll burn it because my truck likes it & my brain likes seeing cheaper fill ups.

MikeNH · December 22, 2013

E85 isn't really 85% ethanol this time of year I don't think, it's less for that reason.

Cowpie · December 23, 2013

I use ethanol free 89 octane year 'round. No corn squeezins in my truck!

Or sugar "squeezins" either, right? Corn is but one source of ethanol production, but not the only one. I really have no problem using ethanol in large quanities. Many early production autos, especially Ford, were built to use ethanol. Must not be too bad to use those corn squeezins in engines. NASCAR has the Ethanol 250. Again must not be too bad to use ethanol in those engines. My main reason is that, at least during the summer months, E85 is cheaper, on a per mile basis, to use than E10 or regular. just a tight wad, I guess.

But, this is rather interesting discussion with pics......... Might want to rethink that "corn squeezins" position.....

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143372

govener71 · December 23, 2013

My original thought process was that if I see a reduction in winter blend 87 octane, about 2-3 mpg with the gas and cold temps, that will bring me closer to the mileage I would see with e85. But then again the truck will use more gas because it is still cold out. So I was unsure if anyone has done a price per mile comparison. When I was looking up some information on the issue I saw several sources that say in the winter it is not e85 it is actually e70. I was not sure if in the winter time it would be more advantageous to use e85, instead of winter blend 87 octane. Especially with the price spread between the two.

So I guess the part I am confused on is winter blend 87 octane or e70 going to be a better deal per mile. On my way home tonight gas was 3.30 and e85 was listed at 2.89 I believe.

I do like the discussion so far as well, it is intriguing to hear and learn the different information about how the amount of ethanol vs. gasoline. Also on the topic of ethanol, I believe it can really be created from any biomass that goes through photosynthesis. It really just depends on the cheapest crops that grow in your area and what the ethanol plants are set up to work with. (I believe this is how it works but could be wrong)

Cowpie · December 23, 2013

For me in my area, the cost variance means I use E85 in the summer months and E10 in the winter months. Regular fuel without ethanol is not as available, and the cost is higher. Many stations in my area do not carry gas that is not laced with at least 10% ethanol. So the few that do have straight gas, get to charge a premium for it. So it is off my list of fuels to buy. I get the best value using E85 in the summer and E10 in the winter. At the price you quoted seeing, E85 is probably not a good deal. This whole E85 thing is really regional and seasonal in nature, and from what I have experienced, there has to be near 80 cents or more of a spread between prices before E85 becomes the better value. That is my break point. One thing for certain, is that my engine seems to perform a tad better on E85. I truly like the stuff.

mike94silverado · December 23, 2013

Here's one for you.. added my insight monitor. It has an alcohol% meter.... I buy all my gas at the same station. E10. the monitor showed 28% alc. I asked the station manager and he said it was "winter Blend" from what I have read, if the pump says E10 it has to be 10% or less... any thoughts?

mike94silverado · December 23, 2013

we have one e85 station in my county. right now the price is EXACTLY the same as regular 87...... I don't understand that.

Cowpie · December 23, 2013

Well, you could always contact the state guy (usually the name in on the sticker on the pump) that oversees the weights and measures dept of your state government and report it. Someone, be it the terminal, tanker driver, your alcohol meter, etc has things wrong, for sure. Those labels stating E10 (or B10 for biodiesel) are allowances for up to and including that amount, not over that amount. One could understand a point or two, but over twice the amount? Hardly.