I found the ultimate solution for GDI Carbon Deposits and BuildUp

[tbarn]

Not counting those who add catch cans from very early on, without before pictures, after pictures are not much use. I've done the BG induction clean and pulled the intake on a Traverse with a 3.6, still covered with a thick gooey mess.

Edited February 11, 2019 by tbarn

[VdellaV]

On 10/2/2019 at 5:57 PM, ftwhite said:

I'd like to see how you rigged up the dirty side and output of your PCV. Sounds interesting. 

But, then I have to ask, if none of your PCV is flowing back into the intake, what are you trying to clean up after with the throttle body PEA induction?

Nice work by the way explaining how and why you are doing stuff and experimenting. Too many people just want answers they can declare to be absolute truths.  

 

The Evac system is the Moroso Part Number 25900, I will put some pics and explanations below: (I tested the system with a vacuum meter and it actually pulls like 5 inches of mercury when the engine has load lol)

 

Carbon buildup is formed by both PCV Gasses clogging up and also the exhaust gasses coming back a little bit to the intake at valve overlap, right between Strokes 4 and 1.

 

Im doing the chemical cleaning to get rid of that carbon and keep my intake free from any restrictions. and also to wash away any contaminants not caught by the air filter.

 

 

Front of Engine, PCV Valve cancelled

 

 

 

Side of intake manifold, PCV nipple also cancelled

 

 PCV inlets into intake cancelled

 

PCV outlets o valve covers now feed Catch Can

 

 

PCV outlets on valve covers feed catch can. Catch Can Feeds Oil Separator on Top. Separator sends remaining vapors to exhaust:

 

 

Venturi in exhaust pipes feeds PCV Vapors to exhaust flow. The Venturi uses the exhaust gas flow to make a vacuum that pulls PCV Gasses

 

 

The golden thingy where the hose attaches is a check valve to prevent any backfires to go back to the engine:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by VdellaV

[Mozzer]

In response to the earlier post (below), I ran seafoam through my intake a while ago, got a lot of smoking but also had greatly increased fuel consumption for around a week & reduced power. I checked various things, cleaned MAF sensor, no change. It eventually got back to normal after driving it really hard for a few trips. My guess would be the gunk in catalytic converters as mentioned.


"If by chance that chunk of carbon doesn’t score the cylinder wall and makes it out the exhaust, will that superheated chunk get lodged into the catalytic converter and cause damage"

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Tapatalk

[VdellaV]

6 minutes ago, Mozzer said:

In response to the earlier post (below), I ran seafoam through my intake a while ago, got a lot of smoking but also had greatly increased fuel consumption for around a week & reduced power. I checked various things, cleaned MAF sensor, no change. It eventually got back to normal after driving it really hard for a few trips. My guess would be the gunk in catalytic converters as mentioned.

"If by chance that chunk of carbon doesn’t score the cylinder wall and makes it out the exhaust, will that superheated chunk get lodged into the catalytic converter and cause damage"
 

This is very important info, thank you!

 

Maybe the seafoam just washed the contamination, but to my understanding, PEAs chemically break apart the carbon, so maybe it won't be big enough chunks clog the Cats ? again, I dont really know, I haven't tried PEA cleaning on catted vehicles

[SS502]

4 hours ago, VdellaV said:

These are all great questions, thank you!

 

First of all, I want to state that im not an expert, but I do have a lot of experience with Vw TFSI and TSI engines and I like to research a lot, so my answers are my own opinions and educated guesses based solely on my experience.

 

1.- This is something that concerns me too, that is why I started doing the cleaning on my truck and cars from day one. I would like to try this on an old clogged engine and see what happens, but I dont think it would be too much of a risk.

 

2.-Again, this is a great question. My guess is that the most likely problem would be that the chunk prevented the valve from closing correctly or messing any of the valve seats.

 

3.- No, in my tests and experience, catch cans, even the most expensive ones, are not even close to trapping all of the PCV vapors, yes they catch a lot of it, but I would be surprised to find a can that would even come close to being 30% efficient at operating temperature. The problem is that the Catch can will distillate the vapors only when cold, but as it gets Hot, vapors just go right trough. and get into the manifold anyway.

 

4.- I do my cleanings every 6k miles with my Oil Change. Its important to note that my setup doesn't recirculate PCV Vapors back to the manifold, I have a catch can inline with a Moroso separator as part of an Evacuation System that dumps 100% of my PCV gasses directly to the vacuum of my exhaust with a Venturi. I would like to show it if you're interested, I thought it through and built it myself.

 

5 and 6 .- Again, only putting catch cans is not 100% efficient, as stated on answer 3.. Also at wide open throttle (no vacuum in manifold) the PCV gasses bypass directly into your intake tubing from the hoses on the frontal part your valve covers, so the catch can at WOT doesn't even have any flow through it.

 

7.-  I am planning to remove my manifold at 50k miles to see what is what directly, stay tuned!

 

8.- Im not anti catch can, but again, in my experience, they become pretty much useless once they heat up to operating temperature, so I dont see a point on using them if its only a half measure. I dont like half measures.

 

 

 

I would be surprised if one of the higher tier cans wouldn’t catch closer to 70% or more. They have coalescing media and chambers to slow down and separate oils, fuels and contaminates along with some water from condensation which occurs at a higher rate with a can that is cold! Heat is a catch can’s friend. I’d be curious if @Elite Engineering or @Joe@UPRproducts would agree with your assessments?  I would probably agree with you if the can was just an empty camber (beer can) with two valves (in and out) on top, they are probably a functional item but very, very minimal amount of effectiveness.

Edited February 11, 2019 by SS502

[VdellaV]

7 minutes ago, SS502 said:

I would be surprised if one of the higher tier cans wouldn’t catch closer to 70% or more. They have coalescing media and chambers to slow down and separate oils, fuels and contaminates along with some water from condensation which occurs at a higher rate with a can that is cold! Heat is a catch can’s friend. I’d be curious if @Elite Engineering or @Joe@UPRproducts would agree with your assessments? 

I would be very much interested on discussing the topic with real experts on the matter, but again, if something is not 100% effective, I would be reluctant about it. I dont like half measures.

 

I understand that catch cans are the most available action to take for some people, regarding ease of installation and passing emission tests, im not anti-catch can.

 

For me, the solution was to avoid PCV recirculation all together but im open to get schooled if Im wrong, and im not stubborn enough to acknowledge that im wrong, if proven contrary with proof and evidence.

[SS502]

Just now, VdellaV said:

I would be very much interested on discussing the topic with real experts on the matter, but again, if something is not 100% effective, I would be reluctant about it. I dont like half measures.

 

I understand that catch cans are the most available action to take for some people, regarding ease of installation and passing emission tests, im not anti-catch can.

 

For me, the solution was to avoid PCV recirculation all together but im open to get schooled if Im wrong, and im not stubborn enough to acknowledge that im wrong, if proven contrary with proof and evidence.

It’s all good! Taking the PCV out of the equation would probably be the ultimate solution but we can’t really do that here, maybe where you are it could be done without consequences ?. Not even trying to say you’re wrong, just thinking that if others read a 30% or worse solution with a catch can they may feel it’s not worth the installation of one. Like I’ve said, I will run the can AND do a cleaning but not every 6K or whatever interval is suggested. Even if as you say they are possibly only 30% effective, that’s still better than letting that 30% pass through between chemical cleanings ?

[VdellaV]

Just now, SS502 said:

It’s all good! Taking the PCV out of the equation would probably be the ultimate solution but we can’t really do that here, maybe where you are it could be done without consequences ?. Not even trying to say you’re wrong, just thinking that if others read a 30% or worse solution with a catch can they may feel it’s not worth the installation of one. Like I’ve said, I will run the can AND do a cleaning but not every 6K or whatever interval is suggested. Even if as you say they are possibly only 30% effective, that’s still better than letting that 30% pass through between chemical cleanings ?

 

I absolutely love to be wrong!! believing something, and then being proven contrary or otherwise, is the best way to learn, its the equivalent of breaking something on engine trying to figure it out (and I have done it a couple of times)

 

Catch can efficiency may also depend on other factors, like the length of the commute, if it doesn't have time to heat up it may very well be extremely effective, depending on the design, and may be a worthy investment for some people.

 

As I said, I would love to discuss the subject with real experts, specially if we all can get a good dose of learning in the process

[SS502]

13 hours ago, VdellaV said:

 

I absolutely love to be wrong!! believing something, and then being proven contrary or otherwise, is the best way to learn, its the equivalent of breaking something on engine trying to figure it out (and I have done it a couple of times)

 

Catch can efficiency may also depend on other factors, like the length of the commute, if it doesn't have time to heat up it may very well be extremely effective, depending on the design, and may be a worthy investment for some people.

 

As I said, I would love to discuss the subject with real experts, specially if we all can get a good dose of learning in the process

Well maybe you’re right, neither of them are disputing your assessment??? ?

[VdellaV]

17 minutes ago, SS502 said:

Well maybe you’re right, neither of them are disputing your assessment??? ?

Im in for the dialogue! but still no reply

[TXGREEK]

Im in for the dialogue! but still no reply

Are you waiting for a catch can manufacturer to respond?


Sent from above

[SS502]

9 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

Are you waiting for a catch can manufacturer to respond?


Sent from above

Yes, as you know I have one and don’t sell them so I felt it right to ask for their inputs 

Edited February 11, 2019 by SS502

[VdellaV]

1 hour ago, TXGREEK said:

Are you waiting for a catch can manufacturer to respond?

 

I didnt even know you could summon people like that. 

[SS502]

8 hours ago, VdellaV said:

 

I didnt even know you could summon people like that. 

LOL...are you being serious?

[VdellaV]

On 10/2/2019 at 6:18 PM, VdellaV said:

The Evac system is the Moroso Part Number 25900, I will put some pics and explanations below: (I tested the system with a vacuum meter and it actually pulls like 5 inches of mercury when the engine has load lol)

 

Carbon buildup is formed by both PCV Gasses clogging up and also the exhaust gasses coming back a little bit to the intake at valve overlap, right between Strokes 4 and 1.

 

Im doing the chemical cleaning to get rid of that carbon and keep my intake free from any restrictions. and also to wash away any contaminants not caught by the air filter.

 

 

Front of Engine, PCV Valve cancelled

 

 

 

Side of intake manifold, PCV nipple also cancelled

 

 PCV inlets into intake cancelled

 

PCV outlets o valve covers now feed Catch Can

 

 

PCV outlets on valve covers feed catch can. Catch Can Feeds Oil Separator on Top. Separator sends remaining vapors to exhaust:

 

 

Venturi in exhaust pipes feeds PCV Vapors to exhaust flow. The Venturi uses the exhaust gas flow to make a vacuum that pulls PCV Gasses

 

 

The golden thingy where the hose attaches is a check valve to prevent any backfires to go back to the engine:

 

 

 

 

 

Fixed the Pic links in case anyone had trouble with them