Top Tier Gas or cheap gas? Arco? chevron? Costco? Shell?

[Sjordan]

Whatever is cheap.  I have kept almost all of my vehicles past 150k miles with zero fuel related issues.  I think people overthink things here.

[Grumpy Bear]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:05 AM, TexasBB said:

What I’ve learned so far:
1. Certain brands have superior gas, some are inferior, or it may be the exact same gas regardless of brands.
2. With higher octane fuels, I may get better gas mileage, worse gas mileage, or it may not make any difference.
3. If I use gas with ethanol, i am either starving farmers or helping them to make a living.
Got it.


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Regardless of the topic this is what happens when you mix truth, fiction and fairy tails in the same pot and call them facts.

You will have to do your own research.

Ask:

What are the government standards for gasoline?

How does that vary from "Top Tier"?

How is gasoline distribution handled in 'my' area?

 

Don't use marketing sources for your search.

[redwngr]

On 5/25/2020 at 8:48 PM, Colossus said:

 

Diesel-  no such thing as top tier Diesel, but the major brands do run their own additives in them just like gasoline though more suited for Diesel, including anti-gelling stuff, lubricity stuff and such.  I've noticed the best performance running Sinclair/Maverik, Phillips 66/Conoco, and then Shell.  No Chevrons around here otherwise I'd give them a shot. 

GM thinks there is, and in the diesel supplements recommends using it.

 

From 2020 diesel supplement:

Fuel Additives
TOP TIER Detergent Diesel is highly recommended for use with
your vehicle. If your area does not have TOP TIER Detergent Diesel,
GM recommends the use of ACDelco Diesel Fuel Conditioner.
This will help maintain optimal engine performance. GM does not
recommend other aftermarket diesel additives. 

 

https://toptiergas.com/diesel-licensed-brands/

 

 

[Colossus]

I'll be damned.  It's a shame that none of the Costcos around here have Diesel pumps.  Well I do run one of the best diesel additives out there, Optilube.  So no issues there. 

[dozerboy]

Top tier fuels use better detergents/additives in their gasoline which is better for your vehicle.  Ethanol or not.  But my choice for gasoline would be Chevron (because of the techron in their fuel) Costco, Phillips 66/Conoco, Shell. 
 
Diesel-  no such thing as top tier Diesel, but the major brands do run their own additives in them just like gasoline though more suited for Diesel, including anti-gelling stuff, lubricity stuff and such.  I've noticed the best performance running Sinclair/Maverik, Phillips 66/Conoco, and then Shell.  No Chevrons around here otherwise I'd give them a shot. 

I only buy fuel from top tier stations. One of my friends use to test fuels and while it all comes out of the same pipelines there is a huge difference in quality and additives. Since I quit buying fuel from anywhere I have noticed minor improvements in all around performance of both my gas and diesel vehicles.

This isn’t necessary for people that don’t rack up a lot of miles or keep vehicles very long though. I rack up 50k a year on my work trucks and keep my other vehicles a while if they seem reliable.

Before I started purchasing quality fuel I did have some excessive wear on the fuel system of my diesel. While not horrible more then I should have see considering how well I maintain my vehicles.


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[Cpl_Punishment]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:39 PM, garagerog said:

Huh? Are you talking about Shell?  Shell is owned by Royal Dutch Petroleum, headquartered in the Netherlands.

Beat me to it. 

[Wintersun]

On 5/20/2020 at 11:16 AM, TexasBB said:

I use 93 octane almost exclusively. There’s a Mobil station directly across the street from Walmart and they match their prices so pretty reasonable.


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That is a complete waste of money. Octane is nothing more than a measure of the fuel resistance to pre-ignition or "knock". A higher compression engine will produce more power but it is also more prone to pre-ignition and so unless the higher octane gas is used the engine computer will ****** the spark to protect the engine and there will be less power produced and a drop in fuel economy.

 

My SUV engine was engineered to run on 87 octane gas and if I put in a higher octane rated gas it accomplishes nothing other than to further enrich the oil companies and they do not need my help only the billions in federal tax subsidies that they already take. When I had a coupe with an engine that required 93 octane for best performance I would run a lower octane gas but my fuel economy dropped and so no real dollar savings.

 

The gas at the pumps are coming from the same refineries and all that varies is the markup by the retailer at their pumps. Costco has the lowest markup and it is the same gas as that going to Arco or Chevron and every other gas station. Gas retailers want the public to think that their gasoline has magical additives that justify the much higher prices being charged but it is all a con game. I use gasbuddy to find the least expensive gas on my travels, but around town I do not drive 20 miles to save a few pennies at the pumps.

 

Where you can have problems with gasoline quality is at some rural gas station that has had little business during the winter months and has a good deal of gasoline sitting in an underground tank. With the current pandemic it would be wise to avoid the small mom and pop stores that sell gas on the side.

[TexasBB]

That is a complete waste of money. Octane is nothing more than a measure of the fuel resistance to pre-ignition or "knock". A higher compression engine will produce more power but it is also more prone to pre-ignition and so unless the higher octane gas is used the engine computer will ****** the spark to protect the engine and there will be less power produced and a drop in fuel economy.
 
My SUV engine was engineered to run on 87 octane gas and if I put in a higher octane rated gas it accomplishes nothing other than to further enrich the oil companies and they do not need my help only the billions in federal tax subsidies that they already take. When I had a coupe with an engine that required 93 octane for best performance I would run a lower octane gas but my fuel economy dropped and so no real dollar savings.
 
The gas at the pumps are coming from the same refineries and all that varies is the markup by the retailer at their pumps. Costco has the lowest markup and it is the same gas as that going to Arco or Chevron and every other gas station. Gas retailers want the public to think that their gasoline has magical additives that justify the much higher prices being charged but it is all a con game. I use gasbuddy to find the least expensive gas on my travels, but around town I do not drive 20 miles to save a few pennies at the pumps.
 
Where you can have problems with gasoline quality is at some rural gas station that has had little business during the winter months and has a good deal of gasoline sitting in an underground tank. With the current pandemic it would be wise to avoid the small mom and pop stores that sell gas on the side.

Ok. That’s what my mechanic told me, so I’m going with his recommendation. Please continue to do as you wish.


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[swathdiver]

On 5/30/2020 at 1:48 PM, Wintersun said:

That is a complete waste of money. Octane is nothing more than a measure of the fuel resistance to pre-ignition or "knock". A higher compression engine will produce more power but it is also more prone to pre-ignition and so unless the higher octane gas is used the engine computer will ****** the spark to protect the engine and there will be less power produced and a drop in fuel economy.

 

My SUV engine was engineered to run on 87 octane gas and if I put in a higher octane rated gas it accomplishes nothing other than to further enrich the oil companies and they do not need my help only the billions in federal tax subsidies that they already take. When I had a coupe with an engine that required 93 octane for best performance I would run a lower octane gas but my fuel economy dropped and so no real dollar savings.

 

The gas at the pumps are coming from the same refineries and all that varies is the markup by the retailer at their pumps. Costco has the lowest markup and it is the same gas as that going to Arco or Chevron and every other gas station. Gas retailers want the public to think that their gasoline has magical additives that justify the much higher prices being charged but it is all a con game. I use gasbuddy to find the least expensive gas on my travels, but around town I do not drive 20 miles to save a few pennies at the pumps.

 

Where you can have problems with gasoline quality is at some rural gas station that has had little business during the winter months and has a good deal of gasoline sitting in an underground tank. With the current pandemic it would be wise to avoid the small mom and pop stores that sell gas on the side.

Brian, there's so much that isn't so in what you wrote.  These new direct injection engines are less prone to show differences in performance between octane ratings and brands but I can assure you that the older Gen IV engines and just about anything else that burned gasoline showed an improvement in performance when higher octane fuel was run compared to what was originally recommended.  I am one of those guys who has logged just about every fuel stop in everything driven since the 1980s.

 

If you are not driving behind a DI engine, and you're honest with yourself, you'll quickly discover that all brands of gasoline are not the same in performance.  For most of us, Chevron is the best gasoline performance wise money can buy.  However, it is not always the most cost effective to burn as many Chevron stations are mighty proud of their fuel and charge a premium for it.  How much does your favorite gas cost you to drive a mile?  This is an important measure of performance on our wallet but not always the engine.

 

[ice_nyne]

I guess this guy ^^^ shut everybody up. 

 

Interesting info here for sure. My problem in SoCal has been in finding stations that carry 93 octane gas. So it's been 91 for me. I'd like to run 93 in my tank, but the closest station carrying the stuff is over 20 miles away and that's a bridge too far.

[AdamAT4]

Brian, there's so much that isn't so in what you wrote.  These new direct injection engines are less prone to show differences in performance between octane ratings and brands but I can assure you that the older Gen IV engines and just about anything else that burned gasoline showed an improvement in performance when higher octane fuel was run compared to what was originally recommended.  I am one of those guys who has logged just about every fuel stop in everything driven since the 1980s.
 
If you are not driving behind a DI engine, and you're honest with yourself, you'll quickly discover that all brands of gasoline are not the same in performance.  For most of us, Chevron is the best gasoline performance wise money can buy.  However, it is not always the most cost effective to burn as many Chevron stations are mighty proud of their fuel and charge a premium for it.  How much does your favorite gas cost you to drive a mile?  This is an important measure of performance on our wallet but not always the engine.
 

In Canada the gas price is by area I assume, every station in my whole city is within a few cents. Some lower volume or more out of city center stations may cost a tiny bit more.

As someone who works in oil and gas, the brands of gas are may be the same base petroleum.

For example our local chevron fuel isn't from a chevron refinery, it's actually from a shell or Suncor refinery and may stations are like this. Once the fuel supplier purchases a base gasoline the chevron (as example) mix their additives in.

The fuel may be slightly different so its possible one engine may favor a chevron additive vs a shell additive.

I tried a few tanks of 87 in mine and my uncle has only ran 87 in his 6.2, a coworker also has only used 87. I didn't notice any difference to normal driving at all, I was surprised how much the engine ticks while at idle (chevron 94) the tick didn't change at all with 87. Everyone pokes gun at the hemi tick and my 5.7 hemi with 100k is smoother than my 3500km 6.2 GM

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[swathdiver]

4 hours ago, AdamAT4 said:

... my uncle has only ran 87 in his 6.2, a coworker also has only used 87.

Those pistons will only take so much detonation before the start coming apart.  These forums and youtube have lots of photos of busted 6.2 pistons from guys running 87 in high compression engines designed for 91+.  

 

In our area, fuel prices vary wildly even within certain neighborhoods.

[M1ck3y]

I've come across a couple studies that show top tier fuel creates greater piston/cylinder deposits over and above non-top tier fuel. However the top-tier fuel does remove a significant amount of deposits on the intake valves versus non-top tier. Of course these studies were done on port injected engines...

 

imo I think the cleaning power of your oil is more important then whats in the fuel, especially with direct injection. You will get some valve overlap, but without constantly shooting fuel directly on the valve, benefits will be minimal.

 

Does ethanol act as a detergent? fuel lines, injectors etc? Might switch to a non top tier 94 with 10% ethanol. 

[Wiggums]

I was told that pure petrol blows away the ethanol deposits. I'm hearing so many contradictory statements. I am sure that I do get better gas mileage from Mexican gas since there's no ethanol.

[Nanotech Environmental]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:14 AM, swathdiver said:

Brian, there's so much that isn't so in what you wrote.  These new direct injection engines are less prone to show differences in performance between octane ratings and brands but I can assure you that the older Gen IV engines and just about anything else that burned gasoline showed an improvement in performance when higher octane fuel was run compared to what was originally recommended.  I am one of those guys who has logged just about every fuel stop in everything driven since the 1980s.

 

If you are not driving behind a DI engine, and you're honest with yourself, you'll quickly discover that all brands of gasoline are not the same in performance.  For most of us, Chevron is the best gasoline performance wise money can buy.  However, it is not always the most cost effective to burn as many Chevron stations are mighty proud of their fuel and charge a premium for it.  How much does your favorite gas cost you to drive a mile?  This is an important measure of performance on our wallet but not always the engine.

 

I don't see how you come to the conclusion that Chevron is giving you better performance, going by these stats. It appears to me that you've used racetrac for all your city driving on hot days with high AC usage, Mobil for your city driving on cooler days. Chevron for moderate days with almost no AC and mostly highway & Sunoco doing both. Nothing in these stats says Chevron is giving you better performance.