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KARNUT

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18 hours ago, txab said:

I've got over 300 guys working in states, at local/state governments requests, that have been on lock down.

I bring this up only to point out that NONE of us has gotten the Covid-19 in the last 60 or so days. So you can survive this.

 

2019 the MLB drew around 28,000 per game. Given current CDC numbers; at those games around 215 sick people attended and as of today 8 of them would die. Sad? Yes. Doom and gloom? No. But a strong warning.......

 

What happened in NYC is what happens when put 215 contagious sick people in that crowd then keep those 28,000 all together for several months. Sick with a disease you have no treatment for. No vaccine for. No capacity to care for.

 

In a group of 300? I'm not surprised you got 60 days case free. Especially if remotely following guidelines 

 

If a chart drew DOOM AND GLOOM comments from anyone they were looking without perspective  

 

Information always needs perspective

 

Be smart, not scared

 

 

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

2019 the MLB drew around 28,000 per game. Given current CDC numbers; at those games around 215 sick people attended and as of today 8 of them would die. Sad? Yes. Doom and gloom? No. But a strong warning.......



Ah yes, the good old days. A warm, sunny open air baseball game. Many hypothesize that the transmission rate in an environment like that is substantially lower than the CDC numbers you pull from. And if high risk people don’t attend this game, and the people who are symptomatic stay home...the death toll drops to zero and the rest of us get our lives back.

 

Wait...that’s not how this works? Well why not?

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New information. When we first learned about the virus, we thought it might be able to live on certain surfaces for relatively long periods of time. Now that we have more data,  we know that may not be the case. Scientific hypotheses are continually being refined as we learn more about our world. We're all human. Can't fault anyone for not immediately knowing everything about a new subject or for making mistakes and learning from them. 

Totally negated the fact that this has been in a lab for quite some time being studied. Also, just read in the uk they messed up and double counted thousands of their positive results. That’s gonna mess up the stats huh?


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13 hours ago, OnTheReel said:


Ah yes, the good old days. A warm, sunny open air baseball game. Many hypothesize that the transmission rate in an environment like that is substantially lower than the CDC numbers you pull from. And if high risk people don’t attend this game, and the people who are symptomatic stay home...the death toll drops to zero and the rest of us get our lives back.

 

Wait...that’s not how this works? Well why not?

Do they now? How nice for them to hypothesize. 

You do know that people that are not high risk also die right? 

Which make the remainder moot, Why? Because it isn't true. 

Why not? Because young one, that's how it works. 

 

More to the point you to totally missed the point...again.....

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8 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Do they now? How nice for them to hypothesize. 

You do know that people that are not high risk also die right? 

Which make the remainder moot, Why? Because it isn't true. 

Why not? Because young one, that's how it works. 

 

More to the point you to totally missed the point...again.....

If it wasn’t obvious by now, I intentionally miss your “points” to make my own.

 

People who aren’t high risk will die of many other things as well, most of which are much more likely to happen than having a bad reaction to COVID. Like all of the unintended consequences in the list I made two or three pages ago.

 

You wrote off half of them as being a matter of personal responsibility. The same personal responsibility you aren’t willing to grant the American public with a chance to open back up.


Visited my father and grandfather today to make sure their plots were maintained and decorated for Memorial Day. One a WWII vet and the other Vietnam. Can’t help but wonder how they would feel about your form of risk management...that is...having no acceptable risk at all. Lose your American dream, suspend life to remain living at any cost.

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7 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

If it wasn’t obvious by now, I intentionally miss your “points” to make my own.

 

People who aren’t high risk will die of many other things as well, most of which are much more likely to happen than having a bad reaction to COVID. Like all of the unintended consequences in the list I made two or three pages ago.

 

You wrote off half of them as being a matter of personal responsibility. The same personal responsibility you aren’t willing to grant the American public with a chance to open back up.


Visited my father and grandfather today to make sure their plots were maintained and decorated for Memorial Day. One a WWII vet and the other Vietnam. Can’t help but wonder how they would feel about your form of risk management...that is...having no acceptable risk at all. Lose your American dream, suspend life to remain living at any cost.

You still don't get it. I don't mind taking a calculated risk.

I mind YOU DECIDING which ones I should take.

 

What your after, it seems, is 'absolute freedom'.

I know you don't want to hear this but... 

There is no such thing

 

You believe I should give up mine

So you can have yours?

 

You can't GRANT personal responsibility.

:crackup:

 

Your father and grandfather didn't believe in the freedom to do as you please

They believed in the freedom to do as you ought. 

Show them some respect past lip service and fresh flowers

Get off the all about me buss

 


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1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

You still don't get it. I don't mind taking a calculated risk.

 

 

I mind YOU DECIDING which ones I should take.

 

What your after, it seems, is 'absolute freedom'.

I know you don't want to hear this but... 

There is no such thing

 

You believe I should give up mine

So you can have yours?

 

You can't GRANT personal responsibility.

:crackup:

 

Your father and grandfather didn't believe in the freedom to do as you please

They believed in the freedom to do as you ought. 

Show them some respect past lip service and fresh flowers

Get off the all about me buss

 

 

No one is dragging you to a baseball game, or even out of your house for that matter. 
 

What you’re saying (from your own all about me bus) is...”I’m scared to go out so EVERYONE should stay home”...

 

I’m scared of catching the virus so EVERYONE needs to wear a mask”...

 

I cannot decide which risks you take...but you want to decide which ones I can’t take?

 

Many sacrificed a lot more than dad and grandpa, but they all fought for our freedom and quality of life. Both of which we have handed back to government overlords in exchange for false security. And in the process, created authoritarian regimes not unlike the ones our heroes fought against.

 

They believed in the freedom granted by the constitution and so do I. Have a nice day from your lockdown bunker. I assume you won’t be going to church. 

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I wear a mask in more crowded areas because I respect others. I show respect to others by showing intent to keep my germs to myself. I carry a small personal size spray bottle filled with https://www.caseyjonesdistillery.com/distillery-hand-sanitizer?utm_medium=adwords&utm_campaign=&utm_source=distillery_hand_sanitizer&utm_content=distillery_sanitizer_responsive&utm_term=%2Bdistillery %2Bsanitizer&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8PPZ3YHO6QIVEL7ACh27uACZEAAYASAAEgJXXfD_BwE

This stuff is like moonshine, it's a trip lol. I am navigating and learning to live within the confines of society as it is presented to me in a safe manner. The more and more things open up here in Western, NY I learn new ways to navigate the day. I can't say anything to someone else about how they wanna navigate this and not be a hypocrite and step on someone's rights. That in itself is what I navigate, reality and I have choices and so do you. People are gonna do how they seem fit, just don't disrespect me and we're all good. I don't like how people are taking advantage of the situation. My rights are threatened all the time and if this ain't a Peachy situation for that. It's way too easy if we all stay home and don't make an effort to live a new way. At least for now...

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23 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

No one is dragging you to a baseball game, or even out of your house for that matter. 
 

What you’re saying (from your own all about me bus) is...”I’m scared to go out so EVERYONE should stay home”...

 

I’m scared of catching the virus so EVERYONE needs to wear a mask”...

 

I cannot decide which risks you take...but you want to decide which ones I can’t take?

 

Many sacrificed a lot more than dad and grandpa, but they all fought for our freedom and quality of life. Both of which we have handed back to government overlords in exchange for false security. And in the process, created authoritarian regimes not unlike the ones our heroes fought against.

 

They believed in the freedom granted by the constitution and so do I. Have a nice day from your lockdown bunker. I assume you won’t be going to church. 

I'm not locked down. I don't tremble in fear. I can think past myself. 

 

Ever ask yourself why? Why would over 200 country's around the world "lock down"?

 

Because this "Personal Responsibility"  you clamor for....few are willing to take. If this were not mandated people that were sick would continue to work. Employers would continue to intimidate and fire those that did the right thing and stayed home. Nursing homes? Rehab homes? I could make this paragraph pages in length but those few should get done. 

 

The mask isn't to protect yourself, it's to protect others from you. Contain your spray. You don't understand the simplest parts of this thing so how will you behave? Pretty much like you are. 

 

You have no RIGHTS under the Constitution to wave a gun at my head, yell FIRE in a theater nor spray others with sickness.

 

This state is starting phase III and already people are ignoring the instructions.

Brazenly so.

 

You can't get a person to take a step back in line. Push past you, physical hands on you while they are going the wrong way in an isle well marked and cursing you for being in their way, inhibiting their freedom. Coughing all over the products.  Half the people leaving a public restroom still wont wash their hands. 

 

I'm not afraid MISTER. 

I'm mad at people doing stupid things my father beat out of me before I was five.

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I'm not locked down. I don't tremble in fear. I can think past myself. 

 

 

 

Ever ask yourself why? Why would over 200 country's around the world "lock down"?

 

Because this "Personal Responsibility"  you clamor for....few are willing to take. If this were not mandated people that were sick would continue to work. Employers would continue to intimidate and fire those that did the right thing and stayed home. Nursing homes? Rehab homes? I could make this paragraph pages in length but those few should get done. 

 

The mask isn't to protect yourself, it's to protect others from you. Contain your spray. You don't understand the simplest parts of this thing so how will you behave? Pretty much like you are. 

 

You have no RIGHTS under the Constitution to wave a gun at my head, yell FIRE in a theater nor spray others with sickness.

 

This state is starting phase III and already people are ignoring the instructions.

Brazenly so.

 

You can't get a person to take a step back in line. Push past you, physical hands on you while they are going the wrong way in an isle well marked and cursing you for being in their way, inhibiting their freedom. Coughing all over the products.  Half the people leaving a public restroom still wont wash their hands. 

 

I'm not afraid MISTER. 

I'm mad at people doing stupid things my father beat out of me before I was five.

Keep being mad at those people for doing what you think are stupid things. When they don’t get sick and opening up results in better overall public health, maybe you can re-assess your stance on the virus.

 

By the way, there are laws against yelling fire or waving a pistol at someone. There is no law against giving someone a cold. Laws are constitutional. Tony Ever’s decrees in Wisconsin were not, that’s why they were tossed. We have a system for this and it’s being subverted, not used.


The system allows for adequate emergency powers granted to local, state and federal governments for a limited amount of time as defined in the law. We are past that point in a legal sense, and it’s clear there are ulterior motives behind many of these continued lockdowns. 

 

I know your responses before you even write them and frankly they are not worth litigating anymore. It’s like talking to a cult, these lockdown supporters...

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Your father and your grandfather were willing to die for your freedoms

You are willing to lets someone else die for yours

What is that called?

 

 

You and your 'like' buddies look down of me for valuing life and call it fear

You say your not afraid yet

You fear your world changing.

You fear your job loss

Your possessions lost

But not life

Interesting

 

Odd your not mad at those who are actually inhibiting your "personal responsibility"

Those acting out the demand such harsh conditions for everyone.

Just one is all it take and your mad at the guy that values your life

Amazing

 

As far as law you might want to brush up a bit

 

(State v. Hinkhouse, 912 P.2d 921 (Or. App. 1996).)

 

You absolutely can be charged and convicted of attempted murder for knowingly infecting another human with a deadly disease. 

 

It's amazing how much you don't know

Yet expect others to be responsible FOR  YOU

 As this has become both irrational and unreasonable

Were done here

 

 

 

 

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The air exchange in a Open-Air baseball game is well...not a model to use for COVID-19 transmissibility.  The USS Theodore Roosevelt is your go to unknown community spread in just about the best conditions for human-human spread.

 

At its highest point, almost 1,200 sailors among the ship's crew of 4,865 tested positive for the virus, including one who died

 

Remember ladies!  You didn't sick on the airplane but most likely all the other places going to and from airport during your travels....the actual fuselage is probably safer than almost every other environment you stagnated in, traveled through or passed by.

 

Also, Totally illegal to smoke a Cigar on state beaches all over the USA....Totally normal for your children to watch Adult grown men caress,fondle and grope each other on that same beach.  Because it's been proven that children are more apt and instilled, impressionable at witnessing smoking from Adults as acceptable or OK.

 

This is how your rights get fleeced right from your hands FOLKS!  Everyday, Every year etc. you keep voting in Politicians that collude, shape and strip your insignificant, pheasant working lifestyle to....just that...more pheasant working lifestyle for their GAIN.......

 

Yeah,,,,they looking out for you and your Family's well being......Yeah...keep thinking that.

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1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Your father and your grandfather were willing to die for your freedoms

You are willing to lets someone else die for yours

What is that called?

 

 

You and your 'like' buddies look down of me for valuing life and call it fear

You say your not afraid yet

You fear your world changing.

You fear your job loss

Your possessions lost

But not life

Interesting

 

Odd your not mad at those who are actually inhibiting your "personal responsibility"

Those acting out the demand such harsh conditions for everyone.

Just one is all it take and your mad at the guy that values your life

Amazing

 

As far as law you might want to brush up a bit

 

(State v. Hinkhouse, 912 P.2d 921 (Or. App. 1996).)

 

You absolutely can be charged and convicted of attempted murder for knowingly infecting another human with a deadly disease. 

 

It's amazing how much you don't know

Yet expect others to be responsible FOR  YOU

 As this has become both irrational and unreasonable

Were done here

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it’s irrational alright. Comparing someone who tests positive and maliciously spreads HIV (which was a death sentence to get in 1996) to incidental transmission of a upper respiratory virus like COVID-19?!? Keep telling everyone else they know nothing of the law while making arguments like that. ?


Just for the record. I am self employed, built a business from scratch after a 10 year stint in retail management which I hated. And my business has been virtually unaffected. Wife’s hasn’t changed either. Our possessions are paid for. The point is, not everyone who disagrees with where things are going has only their own financial interests in hand. In fact, most are able to see beyond that. Stop dragging out the strawman.

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