Catch Can Skeptic

[CSI-WALLEYE]

3 minutes ago, paracutin said:

Absolutely.
1st: As you pointed out in your OP, there is no proof they actually lessen intake valve deposits.  

2nd: It gets pretty cold in the winter where I live.  I have seen several instances where folks report mail seal failure due to over-pressurization.  The dealer and or mechanics attributed this to the catch can freezing.  This brings me to number 3.

3rd: Depending on your dealer, this type of modification can cause them to deny warranty coverage for most anything engine related.  Someone is going to quote the Mag-Moss Warranty Act and that the dealer or GM has to prove that your mod caused the issue they are refusing to warranty.  This is all true.  However, depending on the issue, I may not have the funds to pay for the repairs out of pocket while fighting with GM over the warranty.  I also own only one vehicle so I can't afford to be without mine for an extended period.   I'm not a gambler by nature and certainly not with a $50k truck.

There are other reasons but we'll start with those.

Thanks. I did not know about the problems regarding cold temperatures.  I live in Alberta and we commonly get -30 degree daytime highs.  So this would be an issue for me.  I tend to buy vehicles and use them till the wheels fall of so I am meticulous about maintenance and am careful about what I do to my vehicle.  This is why I made the OP.  There is just not enough info out there to make me pull the trigger.  Right now I am just going to run a quality full synthetic oil and clean in intakes with CRC.

['17 Sierra]

23 minutes ago, 15 Z71 said:

Ahhhh, I love the catch can debates. Lol

True. This subject lends itself to a lot of overthinking. Fact is, they can’t hurt and there’s that much LESS oil going into the intake port.

[TRKLGND]

36 minutes ago, '17 Sierra said:

True. This subject lends itself to a lot of overthinking. Fact is, they can’t hurt and there’s that much LESS oil going into the intake port.

That is not a true statement.  They CAN hurt.  Over pressurization and the possibility of denied warranty are just two examples of how they can hurt.
In the end, it's YOUR money and I will never tell you how to spend it.  

[Jacoby]

38 minutes ago, '17 Sierra said:

True. This subject lends itself to a lot of overthinking. Fact is, they can’t hurt and there’s that much LESS oil going into the intake port.

BOOM!!!!!!  There it is folks.  Couldn't have said it better

[Jacoby]

Just now, paracutin said:

That is not a true statement.  They CAN hurt.  Over pressurization and the possibility of denied warranty are just two examples of how they can hurt.
In the end, it's YOUR money and I will never tell you how to spend it.  

Over pressurization???  That's a new one. 

 

If youre worried about warranty then just remove it.  It takes 5 minutes

[TRKLGND]

4 minutes ago, Jacoby said:

Over pressurization???  That's a new one. 

 

If youre worried about warranty then just remove it.  It takes 5 minutes

Over pressurization is not a new one.  There is a thread or it is in a thread on this very forum.  As determined by a mechanic, this caused the failure of the rear main seal. The over pressurization was due to a frozen can.

Removing it when taking the truck to the dealer for warranty work is just wrong.  If your mod cause a problem just own it and pay for the repairs.  Why should I have to?  People doing crap like that is a contributing factor to ever increasing prices.   

[BigBlueLB756]

Over-pressurization?  I thought we were dealing with vacuum as supplied by the intake plenum.

Hmm.  I guess my thinking was wrong. 

[Jacoby]

13 minutes ago, paracutin said:

Over pressurization is not a new one.  There is a thread or it is in a thread on this very forum.  As determined by a mechanic, this caused the failure of the rear main seal. The over pressurization was due to a frozen can.

Removing it when taking the truck to the dealer for warranty work is just wrong.  If your mod cause a problem just own it and pay for the repairs.  Why should I have to?  People doing crap like that is a contributing factor to ever increasing prices.   

There is no arguing with people like you. I can see what you mean by a frozen can I guess. The can would have to be completely full of water condensation for that to happen though so I would say that’s a super rare occurrence. But I live in Tx so I don’t have to worry about that. As far as Removing it for warranty work being wrong well I disagree and so would countless others. You have a conscience about that and that’s fine. It’s no different then tuning the truck and removing the tune prior to visiting the dealer. 

You’re not into catch cans or modifications that’s cool. But you have no proof these things are bad for an engine when there is plenty of evidence to prove they’re beneficial. 

 

Either way no sense in arguing. You do you

['17 Sierra]

40 minutes ago, paracutin said:

That is not a true statement.  They CAN hurt.  Over pressurization and the possibility of denied warranty are just two examples of how they can hurt.
In the end, it's YOUR money and I will never tell you how to spend it.  

Over pressurization caused by ice would be EXTREMELY rare. If you locate the can near the exhaust manifold ie: bracket mounted to the brake booster, it will thaw very quickly in the rare event that it ever froze. What froze anyway? Oil won't freeze. If the condensation froze, that would be in the bottom of the can and wouldn't affect the air flow anyway. And... I don't believe a catch can would ever be the cause of a warranty denial. If a service manager denies a claim because of a catch can, he'll deny a claim for any bogus reason.

Edited March 29, 2019 by '17 Sierra

['17 Sierra]

11 minutes ago, BigBlueLB756 said:

Over-pressurization?  I thought we were dealing with vacuum as supplied by the intake plenum.

Hmm.  I guess my thinking was wrong. 

What he's getting at is if the PCV system is iced up, there's no route for the crankcase pressure to escape and it would continue to build up. I find it hard to believe that it popped a rear main though.

[TRKLGND]

10 minutes ago, Jacoby said:

There is no arguing with people like you. I can see what you mean by a frozen can I guess. The can would have to be completely full of water condensation for that to happen though so I would say that’s a super rare occurrence. But I live in Tx so I don’t have to worry about that. As far as Removing it for warranty work being wrong well I disagree and so would countless others. You have a conscience about that and that’s fine. It’s no different then tuning the truck and removing the tune prior to visiting the dealer. 

You’re not into catch cans or modifications that’s cool. But you have no proof these things are bad for an engine when there is plenty of evidence to prove they’re beneficial. 

 

Either way no sense in arguing. You do you

Yes, removing a tune for warranty work is also wrong.  It is dishonest and is theft of service.  Rationalize it however you need to.  A modification you made, that is responsible for the failure of a part or a system that you fully expect GM to pay for?  In what world is that not wrong?  If you can't do the time - don't do the crime.
As for proof... I never said they were bad and you shouldn't install one.  I simply offered my opinions as to possible issues to consider first.  On the other hand, you have not offered proof either.  As the OP stated, not a single controlled test has ever been done, at least not that he or I could find.  If you can produce one, it may change a lot of people's opinions or at the very least add real credibility to the product.  

[Jacoby]

4 minutes ago, paracutin said:

Yes, removing a tune for warranty work is also wrong.  It is dishonest and is theft of service.  Rationalize it however you need to.  A modification you made, that is responsible for the failure of a part or a system that you fully expect GM to pay for?  In what world is that not wrong?  If you can't do the time - don't do the crime.
As for proof... I never said they were bad and you shouldn't install one.  I simply offered my opinions as to possible issues to consider first.  On the other hand, you have not offered proof either.  As the OP stated, not a single controlled test has ever been done, at least not that he or I could find.  If you can produce one, it may change a lot of people's opinions or at the very least add real credibility to the product.  

If the mod in question is responsible for the issue I agree it’s dishonest. But if my power seats stop working one day and I want them fixed under warranty then that’s a different story. Catch can or tune shouldn’t be a problem. Again it’s all about your conscience. The bulk of people that have modded something and it caused an issue are going to play dumb and say it was a manufacturing issue or whatever. That’s just people’s nature. Nothing you can do about that and it’s something you shouldn’t worry about. 

And you’re on here advocating how bad they are which is suggestive towards people not purchasing them. You could say the same about me saying they’re beneficial. Whatever it’s a mute point. I’ll continue to run one as I think they work. A pcv system is there to remove blow by gasses. Those gasses contain oil vapor and condensation which is supposed to be sent back through the intake into the combustion chamber and burned off. It’s a proven fact that 100% of that stuff is not burned off in that process especially in a DI motor therefore producing premature carbon buildup. I don’t see how collecting a huge percentage of those vapors and condensation in a container prior to reaching the intake is a bad thing. By lowering the amount of shit going back into the motor your extending that carbon buildup. How is that bad?

[CSI-WALLEYE]

5 minutes ago, paracutin said:

Yes, removing a tune for warranty work is also wrong.  It is dishonest and is theft of service.  Rationalize it however you need to.  A modification you made, that is responsible for the failure of a part or a system that you fully expect GM to pay for?  In what world is that not wrong?  If you can't do the time - don't do the crime.
As for proof... I never said they were bad and you shouldn't install one.  I simply offered my opinions as to possible issues to consider first.  On the other hand, you have not offered proof either.  As the OP stated, not a single controlled test has ever been done, at least not that he or I could find.  If you can produce one, it may change a lot of people's opinions or at the very least add real credibility to the product.  

I side with paracutin here.  If you are performing a mod that causes a malfunction of a product and then hide that you made the mod so that you don't void the warranty that is wrong.  That would be like using the wrong weight oil, wrecking your engine and then replacing it with the right stuff for warranty purposes.  Wrong is wrong.

 

I am still amazed that there is no scientific study available for this.  I have have seen many youtube videos by mechanics and engineers promoting catch cans.  However, you also need to examine their motives because there is a great deal on money changing hands in this industry.  If I was producing a product like a catch can (that actually worked), the first thing I would do is a scientific study.  It would be a great selling feature that would separate your product from the rest.  For those of you using catch cans, does this not give you any pause?

['17 Sierra]

A tune and a catch can are on different sides of the world. A tune will allow the engine to exceed its specified operating parameters. A catch can is for preventive maintenance. I would have no ethical problem with removing my catch can for fear I'd be denied a warranty claim...which would never happen anyway.

Edited March 29, 2019 by '17 Sierra

[TRKLGND]

11 minutes ago, Jacoby said:

If the mod in question is responsible for the issue I agree it’s dishonest. But if my power seats stop working one day and I want them fixed under warranty then that’s a different story. Catch can or tune shouldn’t be a problem. Again it’s all about your conscience. The bulk of people that have modded something and it caused an issue are going to play dumb and say it was a manufacturing issue or whatever. That’s just people’s nature. Nothing you can do about that and it’s something you shouldn’t worry about. 

And you’re on here advocating how bad they are which is suggestive towards people not purchasing them. You could say the same about me saying they’re beneficial. Whatever it’s a mute point. I’ll continue to run one as I think they work. A pcv system is there to remove blow by gasses. Those gasses contain oil vapor and condensation which is supposed to be sent back through the intake into the combustion chamber and burned off. It’s a proven fact that 100% of that stuff is not burned off in that process especially in a DI motor therefore producing premature carbon buildup. I don’t see how collecting a huge percentage of those vapors and condensation in a container prior to reaching the intake is a bad thing. By lowering the amount of shit going back into the motor your extending that carbon buildup. How is that bad?

I believe every time I mentioned a mod and warranty I said "if your mod caused the problem...".  I never once suggested that (using your example) a tune should invalidate a power seat issue.  Not once.  I agree with you there.  Warranty claims unrelated to the mod should be honored.

 

Show everyone reading this a controlled study that supports your conclusions and I will fully support them.  Until then, it is just opinion.  Ours happen to differ and that's just how it's going to be in this case. 

Everyone thought the earth was flat until it was proven otherwise.

 

Have a great weekend!