Long Term Carbon Deposits

JONBLARC7 · May 28, 2019

Just to add fuel to the fire here are my 120k mile valves no catch can. I just took my heads off my 6.2 for a DOD delete and cam. They don’t look that bad.

Like I said before nobody has put up a picture of a 130k mile engine with a catch can on it for, let say 100k miles. Show me it looks better and I’ll believe you.

Edited May 28, 2019 by JONBLARC7

Doublebase · May 28, 2019

On 5/25/2019 at 3:01 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

5.) Looking forward to the results of your study. Very much interested indeed. I LOVE data...you know that.

Yelp...there won't be any results to my study, tried to fish my Autel camera into that intake...impossible to get it in there deep enough to get a look at those valves. Only way that's happening is to remove the intake, which I'm not ready to do. I'll be living in mystery until that intake comes off. Lol.

Grumpy Bear · May 29, 2019

11 hours ago, JONBLARC7 said:

Just to add fuel to the fire here are my 120k mile valves no catch can. I just took my heads off my 6.2 for a DOD delete and cam. They don’t look that bad.

Like I said before nobody has put up a picture of a 130k mile engine with a catch can on it for, let say 100k miles. Show me it looks better and I’ll believe you.

6 hours ago, Doublebase said:

Yelp...there won't be any results to my study, tried to fish my Autel camera into that intake...impossible to get it in there deep enough to get a look at those valves. Only way that's happening is to remove the intake, which I'm not ready to do. I'll be living in mystery until that intake comes off. Lol.

Let's just use his.

CombsL83 · May 29, 2019

So nobody with a catch can wants to post pictures of their valves but are 100% positive that theirs are in better condition than non catch can engines. Got my laugh in for the day

rah7777777 · May 30, 2019

I'm not saying a can is a complete waste, but i'm my head, for a stock truck like mine, I do not think the benefits are there.

And I say that knowing i'll be keeping this truck for atleast 12 years and then giving it to my (currently) 4 year old son to drive through high school and college.

(You know, assuming nothing major happens along the way)

FishinDVM · May 30, 2019

Ok... dont beat on me too much here for all the things I didnt do and should have done. But... I have a 2014 GMC Sierra at 80k and I have NEVER done anything to the intake valves, no CRC, no seafoam, no BG GDI, nothing. I have done full synthetic oil changes at appropriate times, techron fuel cleaner here and there, new air filter, MAF and throttle body cleanings, etc.... but not the intakes. Anyhow, truck has been SLIGHTLY slower, using a little more oil, SLIGHTLY more vibration at idle, and last few weeks I have gotten a "cold start rough idle" code, and a random misfire code, on/off (it happened twice). Mechanic friend down the street who I trust and have used forever found nothing specific but recommended I had the valves decarbonized.

So... the question is... AT THIS LATE STAGE OF THE GAME... 80K MILES... what would you do? I fear the CRC or Seafoam thing would create more problems with the large deposits coming off. I have called a few places looking for the BG GDI cleaning, but all the places BG lists only offer a fuel system cleaning and NOT the back of the intake valves directly. I called the dealership who of course would do it manually, but they want $600. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to do this? I feel this is above the DIY job for me. In the future, sure, I'll do a seafoam or crc in the intake just prior to oil changes and maybe do a catch can as well, but AT THIS POINT, what would you do? Thanks, Chris

Doublebase · May 30, 2019

3 hours ago, FishinDVM said:

Ok... dont beat on me too much here for all the things I didnt do and should have done. But... I have a 2014 GMC Sierra at 80k and I have NEVER done anything to the intake valves, no CRC, no seafoam, no BG GDI, nothing. I have done full synthetic oil changes at appropriate times, techron fuel cleaner here and there, new air filter, MAF and throttle body cleanings, etc.... but not the intakes. Anyhow, truck has been SLIGHTLY slower, using a little more oil, SLIGHTLY more vibration at idle, and last few weeks I have gotten a "cold start rough idle" code, and a random misfire code, on/off (it happened twice). Mechanic friend down the street who I trust and have used forever found nothing specific but recommended I had the valves decarbonized.

So... the question is... AT THIS LATE STAGE OF THE GAME... 80K MILES... what would you do? I fear the CRC or Seafoam thing would create more problems with the large deposits coming off. I have called a few places looking for the BG GDI cleaning, but all the places BG lists only offer a fuel system cleaning and NOT the back of the intake valves directly. I called the dealership who of course would do it manually, but they want $600. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to do this? I feel this is above the DIY job for me. In the future, sure, I'll do a seafoam or crc in the intake just prior to oil changes and maybe do a catch can as well, but AT THIS POINT, what would you do? Thanks, Chris

Have you changed your spark plugs? I'd do that first, if not.

As for the valve cleaning, if the dealer is going to charge you $600 to manually clean them, why not take it to a trusted independent that would probably charge less than that? It can't be hard to remove that intake, it's right there on top...I understand you maybe think you can't do it but it'd be a piece of cake for a tech.

I would personally not suggest any cleaners like Sea Foam or CRC at this point...you have 80k miles...if there is carbon there, those cleaners aren't goi to do squat at this point. I'd definitely say a manual cleaning is your best option (if actually needed).

I've also read there is a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that can get carboned up and hinder performance (these valves direct different patterns of air turbalance depending on low speed/high speed situations).

Paintor · June 3, 2019

On 5/28/2019 at 8:30 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Let's just use his.

Err I put K&N breathers on my valve covers and get Zero carbon. Still complies with GM’s PCV emission patent/EPA...bad stuff aint supposed to come up from valve cover breathers since the PCV valve on the intake is suckin IN

To doubt such defeats GM’s Patent and EPA Regulations.

Jacoby · June 3, 2019

On 5/28/2019 at 8:14 PM, CombsL83 said:

100% positive that theirs are in better condition than non catch can engines.

I’m 100% positive

On 5/30/2019 at 2:06 PM, FishinDVM said:

Ok... dont beat on me too much here for all the things I didnt do and should have done. But... I have a 2014 GMC Sierra at 80k and I have NEVER done anything to the intake valves, no CRC, no seafoam, no BG GDI, nothing. I have done full synthetic oil changes at appropriate times, techron fuel cleaner here and there, new air filter, MAF and throttle body cleanings, etc.... but not the intakes. Anyhow, truck has been SLIGHTLY slower, using a little more oil, SLIGHTLY more vibration at idle, and last few weeks I have gotten a "cold start rough idle" code, and a random misfire code, on/off (it happened twice). Mechanic friend down the street who I trust and have used forever found nothing specific but recommended I had the valves decarbonized.

So... the question is... AT THIS LATE STAGE OF THE GAME... 80K MILES... what would you do? I fear the CRC or Seafoam thing would create more problems with the large deposits coming off. I have called a few places looking for the BG GDI cleaning, but all the places BG lists only offer a fuel system cleaning and NOT the back of the intake valves directly. I called the dealership who of course would do it manually, but they want $600. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to do this? I feel this is above the DIY job for me. In the future, sure, I'll do a seafoam or crc in the intake just prior to oil changes and maybe do a catch can as well, but AT THIS POINT, what would you do? Thanks, Chris

Do a Seafoam treatment

Back in a Bowtie · June 10, 2019

soooooooo anyone with a can please post a pic for comparative reasons. This is not a challenge truly curious to see.

kennerz · June 11, 2019

9 hours ago, 14tungstenLT said:

soooooooo anyone with a can please post a pic for comparative reasons. This is not a challenge truly curious to see.

Soon, I have a 6.2 with a little over 60k on the clock. Ran a basic elite catch can since 3k. I have gaskets ready just in case ( I know they most likely wont be needed). Just need the time. Within the next couple of weeks I'm gonna pull the intake and take pics/ clean if necessary. The technique I will use depends on the condition of the valves. If it's mild - carb cleaner and scraping. If it's heavy to me - will assemble a walnut blasting set up and document. Just a time thing at the moment, and I'll need a half/whole day to set aside for the unexpected.

Not doing it to prove anything as I don't know what to expect either way. I'll be happy if I'm wrong about DI and the catch can turns out to be a waste of money because it's a non-issue and everything is clean; and essentially pulled the intake for nothing. If it looks bad, then maybe the rumors are true. I can already see a moderate oily burnt coating on the inside of the intake behind the throttle body

Fact is, we don't have a large enough sample to prove anything, if turns out that it's clean or dirty. Find 30 random members here to pull their intakes and document and note mileage, oil used, catch can or not, etc.. then we might be able to reach a better conclusion.

That 130k motor doesn't look horrible, but that's not what I would consider clean either. I would say, dirty enough to impact performance by some "X" amount vs perfectly clean. If it turns out that it's 1/2 mpg, or 10 HP to me that's something where it should be cleaned, The numbers documented on the corvette forums on a gen V LT1 were a lot higher than those.

3tspapat · June 18, 2019

So what i'm getting from this thread is that the small quantity of oil that gets through the PCV and into the intake is perfectly fine for the engine and has absolutely zero effect? Because that is what it seems like OP is saying.

Sierra Dan · June 18, 2019

Many members here do not have a catch can and are well over 100K on their non K2 trucks without issues.

No disrespect to those of you that run a catch can and i encourage anyone to follow with what makes them the most content, but the

question remains. If this carbon buildup is such a problem long term why do automakers not include an Oem engineered Catch Can setup from the factory?

Is it an extra cost issue or that engineers feel a catch can is not a crucial component to the longevity of an engine?

truckguy82 · June 18, 2019

30 minutes ago, Sierra Dan said:

Many members here do not have a catch can and are well over 100K on their non K2 trucks without issues.

No disrespect to those of you that run a catch can and i encourage anyone to follow with what makes them the most content, but the

question remains. If this carbon buildup is such a problem long term why do automakers not include an Oem engineered Catch Can setup from the factory?

Is it an extra cost issue or that engineers feel a catch can is not a crucial component to the longevity of an engine?

Because it can freeze

Mike GMC · June 19, 2019

I don't know if they still do it, but Porsche was installing what amounted to a factory catch can on the 911's back around 2000 and maybe even earlier. It was plastic and considered a "serviceable" part that supposed to be replaced every 30k miles. I would really like to know what they do these days with their DI engines.