You think your 8 speed is bad...

Doublebase · June 28, 2018

As we are all aware, many manufacturers are turning to 8 speed transmissions for fuel economy. I personally owned one for five years in my Lexus and absolutely loved the thing. It did have its quirks but for the most part it allowed me to get phenomenal fuel economy out of a V8. I believe the transmission was made by Aisin.

Today I was in a professional development class run by a ZF factory rep. ZF is the second largest OE parts manufacturer for German vehicles (second to only to Bosch). What the guy told me about the 8 speed transmission that they mass produce for VW Audi, Mercedes, Chrysler and others, really kind of blew my mind. He said they make so many of these transmissions that they needed to build a factory next to BMW in America because they couldn't ship them over here fast enough. They used to fly them over but what happened was the transmissions were filled with fluid, and the fluid poured out while the planes took off (and they were heavily fined). They build thousands of these units a day.

Long story short...they sold the blueprint of the transmission to Chrysler. They make 8 dollars off of every transmission Chrysler puts into their cars (plus whatever they paid for the rights to the transmission). The transmission is put in everything from the Hellcat, to the Ram. The guy was asked how many transmissions are rebuilt on warranty through ZF - he said 60 a day - and that they could/should be doing more but their division can't handle the workload. He was asked how many of those transmissions were failures from Chrysler...he said 95%. I was shocked. He said Chrysler chose to take the spec sheet and low bid all the internal solenoids and use cheaper metals. That crazy or what?

ZF bought TRW, so a lot of the class was about TRW, suspension components...how modifications can stress bearings, etc. He talked about the different ways aftermarket ball joints and tie rods affect electric steering racks. It was pretty cool. He also talked about how Audi had wiring issues with their A4 (grounds) and a solution was discovered for 80 cents a vehicle...and it was voted down because they would have to layoff everyone in that division and change manufacturers who made the ground components. It was voted down unanimously. Haha. They could have solved their ground issues but instead decided it was better not to. They talked about their diesel fiasco and how the program was biapased by the steering angle sensor (pretty ingenious until they were caught).

What I took away from the class was how everything is money driven in this industry. Everything. You like a certain brand?? They don't like you. You should have heard what was said about Moog autoparts (they wrote the book on cutting corners and manipulating the market). Very interesting.

mookdoc6 · June 28, 2018

BMW uses GM transmissions. It's all about the pennies not hard to understand when your dealing with millions of units....GM engine and trans have always been better than Ferd's, Fiat etc. I think a properly dialed in, robust 8speed is perfect. 10speed is just gonna be way to much up/down for me.

Doublebase · June 28, 2018

1 hour ago, mookdoc6 said:

BMW uses GM transmissions. It's all about the pennies not hard to understand when your dealing with millions of units....GM engine and trans have always been better than Ferd's, Fiat etc. I think a properly dialed in, robust 8speed is perfect. 10speed is just gonna be way to much up/down for me.

I didn't realize that. Apparently the 328 has a GM France division manufactured transmission going back around the 2007/2008 time period.

It's funny how these things happen. Didn't Cadillac use the Aisin 8 speed in some of their cars three years ago?

One thing I learned today was that a manufacturer will not use one specific part manufacturer for all their parts on a vehicle. The manufacturer worries too much about not being able to receive parts if the company's workers go on strike, therefore it's common to see different manufacturers of control arms, ball joints, etc...all on the same model (but spec'd the same). Never understood why I've seen that. Take the Silverado...seen stock same year trucks with different branded shocks, control arms, etc.

TXGREEK · June 28, 2018

Harley Davidson is going to be moving a manufacturing plant in Thailand now in order to avoid high taxes for products being sent from USA to other global countries. Apparently, they’ve already been building bikes outside the US, didn’t know this. On the bright side, there is one made in America motorcycle company and that’s Indian Motorcycles! [emoji631] [emoji631] [emoji631]

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wforrest08 · June 28, 2018

Don’t fool yourself it’s not all about the pennies it’s about the share holders with the Fortune 500 companies. Used to be customer service was number 1 and putting out the best quality product/service you could for the money then employee satisfaction. Not anymore it’s share holders and artificially driving up stock price by any means first then everything eles because the CEOs have figured out that’s all the share holders care about and if they don’t meet or exceed the share holders expectations the share holders will replace them with somebody that will...

Doublebase · June 28, 2018

25 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

Harley Davidson is going to be moving a manufacturing plant in Thailand now in order to avoid high taxes for products being sent from USA to other global countries. Apparently, they’ve already been building bikes outside the US, didn’t know this. On the bright side, there is one made in America motorcycle company and that’s Indian Motorcycles!

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Yeah I read that, companies are going to have to make adjustments to these tariffs (if they go into place). Things could get ugly all around. But Harley's sales have been way down in the US the last few years, they're shutting down dealers all over the place. Europe is something they need to stay afloat, I guess.

Toyota said that other day that IF the tariffs are implemented they will have to raise the price of their vehicles by something like $2,000 per each Camry.

The thing that pisses me off is the absolutely HUGE tax breaks American companies were just given - and that's not a one year thing - some of these companies will be saving billions in taxes...and they're just going to bail when things get tough? Just pass their problems right onto the consumer? Crush the little guy?

Doublebase · June 28, 2018

29 minutes ago, wforrest08 said:

Don’t fool yourself it’s not all about the pennies it’s about the share holders with the Fortune 500 companies. Used to be customer service was number 1 and putting out the best quality product/service you could for the money then employee satisfaction. Not anymore it’s share holders and artificially driving up stock price by any means first then everything eles because the CEOs have figured out that’s all the share holders care about and if they don’t meet or exceed the share holders expectations the share holders will replace them with somebody that will...

Yeah they don't care. A friend of mine is a BMW factory rep, BMW actually tells him that the life expectancy of their cars are considered to be three years 100,000 miles. After that? They don't care. It can blow up, they could care less. They know their customer base. Their customer base buys or leases their cars...keeps them for three years and turns them in, the people that buy THOSE cars at THAT point, are not BMW customers..they don't care about those people or the problems they're going to have with those cars.

And you know what? It works. The guy that buys the used BMW and gets stuck putting a $10,000 dollar transmission in it and says...I'll never buy BMW again!! Well he's not the one buying them anyway.

shift_grind · June 29, 2018

The thing the 8 speed has going for it, in the 2019 trucks is this is essentially a v2.0, so I hope some of the bugs have been worked out. They're not real big on making changes mid model run, but a all new truck justify's making all the changes they see fit.

If the 8 speed is glitch free and the programming is right, it should be a really nice unit. I know a lot of people complained about the 6 speeds in the GMT900 trucks, but in the k2's they are really good from a reliability / programming standpoint.

Boardmember · June 29, 2018

4 hours ago, wforrest08 said:

Don’t fool yourself it’s not all about the pennies it’s about the share holders with the Fortune 500 companies. Used to be customer service was number 1 and putting out the best quality product/service you could for the money then employee satisfaction. Not anymore it’s share holders and artificially driving up stock price by any means first then everything eles because the CEOs have figured out that’s all the share holders care about and if they don’t meet or exceed the share holders expectations the share holders will replace them with somebody that will...

This is entirely accurate. Corporate America just needs to find a generally sustainable endeavor that attracts investors and pays a dividend. Cars, electricity, cell phones...whatever. Earnings per share. Shareholder retention/attraction. Hell with whatever doodad we produce and sell.

L86 All Terrain · June 29, 2018

15 hours ago, shift_grind said:

The thing the 8 speed has going for it, in the 2019 trucks is this is essentially a v2.0, so I hope some of the bugs have been worked out. They're not real big on making changes mid model run, but a all new truck justify's making all the changes they see fit.

If the 8 speed is glitch free and the programming is right, it should be a really nice unit. I know a lot of people complained about the 6 speeds in the GMT900 trucks, but in the k2's they are really good from a reliability / programming standpoint.

Funny to hear that. My 2010 GMT9 6L80E shifted perfect, smooth as butter. My K2 6L80E feels like someone is in the truck kicking you in the head. My K2 8L90E is nice. Although I must say when I bought my first 6L I thought 6 gears was one too many. Thought the same about the 8L. Ten speed makes sense in a HD truck, not so much in a halfer.

I have always found Ram's to be a bit on the cheap side in many areas, mind you they are all built that way now. They don't want your truck to last 10 years, they want you back in the door in 5 buying another one. None of todays vehicles will last like the did in the 90's. It all comes down to money, build them cheaper, charge more. Build them as cheap as possible but not so cheap that they all break during the warranty period.

Interesting read bud, thanks for sharing.