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Where Do You Stand? GM vs. UAW In Most Recent Contract Talks


Gorehamj

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5 hours ago, Styles_888 said:

Does any here work for a union?  I voted no to strike as I need to pay the bills, that vote wasn't the majority ...  were not all lazy.

I don't get why anyone would vote to go on strike, stay out for a month, then settle for a 3% increase.  Every month you are out on strike requires an 8% increase just to cover your loss of income for being out on strike.  There is no way I would vote for a strike.  It is just a losing battle, unless you are in the union office.  They never go on strike.

I don't think anyone is saying all union workers are lazy, but I do think most are saying the union protects the lazy.  I work most of my life so far at jobs where there were merit increases, the lazy or the workers with poor attitudes were dealt with appropriately,  and the other workers in that department or areas were onboard with that management style.  Nothing kills worker spirit faster than paying everyone the same hourly rate.  Worker spirit drops to the lowest common denominator.  

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15 hours ago, Yondu said:

Oh I know they're focusing on profits, the price vs quality is proof of that.  The question is, why are you, the consumer, ok with that? Seems that would make share holders happy but not buyers.  They are gouging more than their competitors.  

 

They do make some good stuff.  But man, the t1xx trucks are such a let down and the cost cutting is too much.  

I’m willing to pay more for a higher quality product. When I first got into my Suburban to test drive, I said “Wow, this looks like a 90s Toyota” and I was sold.

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I for one was thinking of buying a new truck, but since the news of the strike I am going to hold off until the strike is resolved.

 

I have worked in one of these factories in the past as a temp, I think it was at $11 an hour.  The factories are loud sweat boxes.  Huge turnover trying to keep employees.  And add to that when management is on the production line they play games switching parts that are supposed to go on one vehicle to another.

 

Now my dad worked 30 years for GM. Hired in in the late 70s, is now retired.   He saids it's a 2 tier system, those who hire in now will never make what he made.   The UAW has forfeited a lot.  

 

What I find really irritating is talking to other my dad's age who also retired from GM, who draw a pension and they do not own or choose to buy GM vehicles.  

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On 9/18/2019 at 3:55 PM, rah7777777 said:

I never have worked for a union, in general, from the stories of folks I know in unions (UPS and Lockhead) they are a way to keep shitty employees from getting fired permanently. 

 

Drunk UPS driver who was arrested on the clock... back at work

Mechanic who slept on his tool box for 7 hours straight after clocking in... back at work

Supervisor looking up porn and jerking it in his office mid-day... back at work

Employee that didn't show or call for 10 days... back at work

Worker on camera spending 5 hours of his shift in the break room in 1 day.... back at work

 

 

I work a "city job" and most folks think city employees are lazy, and sometimes they are, but every time I talk to someone who has been in a union about the crazy union stuff they've seen, I think "damn, the city folks can't even touch that!"

Yay Teamsters!  They can fight for someone's job that everyone management and hourlies  agree shouldn't have one, but fighting for more full time jobs that aren't driving?  Nope can't do that.  Then rub it in my face telling me my 14 years is enough to bid FT knowing damn well I have a 5% chance of actually going.  Instead of creating more non driving FT jobs they create a 2nd tier FT driver position that will end up doing the exact work regular FT drivers do but for a lot less.  Yep unions, specifically the teamsters, are awesome.  Disney employees got tired of their crap and had our local president fired.  Now if only we could clear out the rest of the union hall and put new people in there.

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On 9/16/2019 at 9:37 PM, Mandalorian said:

Nothing against unions, most of them are hard working people doing honest work. That being said, the UAW leadership has proven itself corrupt and inept time and again. They say they're looking out for the working man while pulling down nearly 7 figure salaries and taking lavish vacations. Spending union dues to look out from the working man from the prow of their yachts, maybe.

The thing that gets me is that they have great pay and bens but there's reports of employees drinking and doing drugs when on break yet keep their jobs.  The Union was intended to ensure employee fairness - not a ticket to do anything you want; things can easily get a little out of whack.  

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NAFTA.

Chicago school economics.

Globalization.

None of the above was for the benefit of the people or society.

 

Fellow human beings at each others throats < race to the bottom

Everyone take a step back; whom is really winning this battle? Why is North America in its current state?

Educate yourselves (read some books); my eyes have certainly been opened up this past year.

 

The question should not be "why is their pay package so generous?" rather "why isn't mine?"

For the record, I have very strong views favoring certain aspects of socialism. 

 

Have a pleasant evening all

Cheers, Brendan

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On 9/16/2019 at 11:45 AM, 2017Darkness said:

well, let's see...

 

in 2018, GM made a pre-tax profit of $10.8 billion dollars. PROFIT. by definition, profit is: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying and/or producing something." by the same definition, "Any profit that is gained goes to the business's owners, who may or may not decide to spend it on the business (or, reinvest)

 

keep in mind that profit is the amount returned to shareholders AFTER paying for materials, worker salaries, expenses, etc., etc.

 

so, in 2018, GM owners earned nearly 11 billion dollars as a result of all their employees' hard work. how on god's green and blue earth can anyone in their right mind justify this gross inequity? who makes the product? workers. who profits? shareholders. if you think that a corporation profiting $11 billion dollars annually doesn't have enough money to pay their workers, you are obviously mathematically retarded. 

 

in addition, and more generally, just because you are getting shafted at work doesn't mean everyone else should get shafted, too.  i mean, at some point you have to ask yourself the question of "how much money do corporations need to earn?" and "what are they going to do with all of that money?" the answers, of course, are "more, always more" and "hoard it." given that the money supply is not infinite, don't you see that the more money one person has equates to less money available for others? the beauty of the US is that we are the richest nation in the history of this planet and have more than plenty for everyone. we truly have enough for everyone to live in "excess." that is, until some begin hoarding billions and billions of dollars. 

 

surely we've all been to a party where the host orders pizza. when 12 pizzas arrive to feed 8 guests, inarguably there is more than enough pizza to feed everyone. heck, there's enough pizza for people to "pig out!" BUT, if one of those eight guests takes and hoards ten of those twelve pizzas under the guise of saying that they deserve more because it was their idea to order pizza, the remaining seven guests are left to fight over what have now become "scraps." 

 

GM is that no good, party-ruining pizza hoarder. if you side with gm over the workers (i.e., those who actually make the product), what is it that you are failing to understand? said differently, what is wrong with you that would make you support a greedy, party-ruining pizza hoarder over a regular party-goer just like yourself?

 

no, seriously... what is wrong with you?

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On 9/22/2019 at 9:56 AM, 68camaro said:

The thing that gets me is that they have great pay and bens but there's reports of employees drinking and doing drugs when on break yet keep their jobs.  The Union was intended to ensure employee fairness - not a ticket to do anything you want; things can easily get a little out of whack.  

that is hardly a problem with unions. that is a problem with individual employees. i know of no union that advocates employees becoming intoxicated while on the job. 

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well, let's see...
 
in 2018, GM made a pre-tax profit of $10.8 billion dollars. PROFIT. by definition, profit is: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying and/or producing something." by the same definition, "Any profit that is gained goes to the business's owners, who may or may not decide to spend it on the business (or, reinvest)
 
keep in mind that profit is the amount returned to shareholders AFTER paying for materials, worker salaries, expenses, etc., etc.
 
so, in 2018, GM owners earned nearly 11 billion dollars as a result of all their employees' hard work. how on god's green and blue earth can anyone in their right mind justify this gross inequity? who makes the product? workers. who profits? shareholders. if you think that a corporation profiting $11 billion dollars annually doesn't have enough money to pay their workers, you are obviously mathematically retarded. 
 
in addition, and more generally, just because you are getting shafted at work doesn't mean everyone else should get shafted, too.  i mean, at some point you have to ask yourself the question of "how much money do corporations need to earn?" and "what are they going to do with all of that money?" the answers, of course, are "more, always more" and "hoard it." given that the money supply is not infinite, don't you see that the more money one person has equates to less money available for others? the beauty of the US is that we are the richest nation in the history of this planet and have more than plenty for everyone. we truly have enough for everyone to live in "excess." that is, until some begin hoarding billions and billions of dollars. 
 
surely we've all been to a party where the host orders pizza. when 12 pizzas arrive to feed 8 guests, inarguably there is more than enough pizza to feed everyone. heck, there's enough pizza for people to "pig out!" BUT, if one of those eight guests takes and hoards ten of those twelve pizzas under the guise of saying that they deserve more because it was their idea to order pizza, the remaining seven guests are left to fight over what have now become "scraps." 
 
GM is that no good, party-ruining pizza hoarder. if you side with gm over the workers (i.e., those who actually make the product), what is it that you are failing to understand? said differently, what is wrong with you that would make you support a greedy, party-ruining pizza hoarder over a regular party-goer just like yourself?
 
no, seriously... what is wrong with you?

GM is a very large company. That sounds like a lot of money. On that scale one or two bad years that money’s gone. No retooling for new models etc. Remember GM went broke once. Why? The salaries and benefits got too high. Along with bad cars. People started buying foreign cars. The gas prices level out and GM made better vehicles. That’s generally how it was. The point that profit can disappear very quick. People just can’t wrap their head around it.


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16 hours ago, KARNUT said:


GM is a very large company. That sounds like a lot of money. On that scale one or two bad years that money’s gone. No retooling for new models etc. Remember GM went broke once. Why? The salaries and benefits got too high. Along with bad cars. People started buying foreign cars. The gas prices level out and GM made better vehicles. That’s generally how it was. The point that profit can disappear very quick. People just can’t wrap their head around it.


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What killed the big 3 in 08/09 was the collapse of the housing market.  The big 3 were all being held up financially by the sales of their trucks.  When the housing market crashed, so did the jobs in the housing market.  Those jobs used to buy up all those trucks yearly.  The big 3 is still counting on their truck sales to hold them afloat. 

 

What they learned from the last crash was how to take loans from the government in such a way that they never had to pay them back.  Once they heard that they were only going to have to repay 10% of what they got, it, before 12 months were up,  it was pretty simple.  Figure out how much they really needed, tack on an extra 12%,  then, 3 months later pay back their bail out loans, as agreed, 9 months early, then advertise the shit out of how they paid back their bailout money 9 months early.

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