Transmission Fluid Change

[KARNUT]

Anyway back on topic, the truck is up and running again. I put a whole gallon and a little bit of the second one in and pumped some more out until I mostly saw red running out. I kept checking the dip stick and it said it was within operating level. So I backed it up a little, drive it forward a little, and checked again. Then it was not reading so I put the entire second gallon in. Then I decided to put the Lucas Conditioner in as well. I drove it around our development which is almost exactly a two mile drive all together. 
 
While I was driving it either the second or third gear makes a really, really rough transition. I would like to say I know what a slip feels like and this was definitely more of a big bang and stall than a "slip". So when I got it back home I checked the oil level again and the stick is dry. So I just bought another gallon and waiting for it to get here. I really hope that there is no damage. I put nine quarts in it all together and might have pumped two or three out max when I was trying to get the old oil out. 
 
Is it normal for the transmission to slip that hard if it is low on oil? I am hoping added the additional oil will resolve my issue. 

Transmissions aren’t very forgiving, especially with oil level. Sitting level and running through the gears are all that’s needed to cycle the fluid. The problem with checking the fluid after filling is you do both through the same tube. It will expand a lot cold to hot. When I did a fluid exchange I would capture the fluid and add that amount back in. As you gathered it not performing normal and sounds low.


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[Hexa Fox]

18 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Transmissions aren’t very forgiving, especially with oil level. Sitting level and running through the gears are all that’s needed to cycle the fluid. The problem with checking the fluid after filling is you do both through the same tube. It will expand a lot cold to hot. When I did a fluid exchange I would capture the fluid and add that amount back in. As you gathered it not performing normal and sounds low.


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Thanks, so I guess I will not know until I get the third gallon that I should have already bought. Also it started doing the 'slam shifting' thing as soon as I got it out on the road. As I mentioned before I put nine quarts in it. Not sure how much I pumped out trying to get the rest of the old oil out. I would imagine it would surprise you as to how much actually comes out. I really hope it is okay. I would hate to have to trade it in or have the transmission rebuilt after going through all this trouble. 

[KARNUT]

Thanks, so I guess I will not know until I get the third gallon that I should have already bought. Also it started doing the 'slam shifting' thing as soon as I got it out on the road. As I mentioned before I put nine quarts in it. Not sure how much I pumped out trying to get the rest of the old oil out. I would imagine it would surprise you as to how much actually comes out. I really hope it is okay. I would hate to have to trade it in or have the transmission rebuilt after going through all this trouble. 

Two miles shouldn’t have killed it, unless it was already going.


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[Hexa Fox]

5 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Two miles shouldn’t have killed it, unless it was already going.


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No I want to say there was some mild slipping before change but I think it was just in my mind. Also according to my father, it was just in my mind. I honestly have not felt it slip in the past year or so. I know what a slipping transmission feels like from my fathers KIA Sorento. 

[KARNUT]

No I want to say there was some mild slipping before change but I think it was just in my mind. Also according to my father, it was just in my mind. I honestly have not felt it slip in the past year or so. I know what a slipping transmission feels like from my fathers KIA Sorento. 

They wouldn’t slip long.


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[Hexa Fox]

1 minute ago, KARNUT said:

They wouldn’t slip long.


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So you think the adding transmission fluid to the correct level could resolve the rough shifting? 

 

I have to wait until Friday for it to get here now. I thought someone around here would carry the ACDelco brand of transmission fluid but sure enough I was wrong. 

[KARNUT]

So you think the adding transmission fluid to the correct level could resolve the rough shifting? 
 
I have to wait until Friday for it to get here now. I thought someone around here would carry the ACDelco brand of transmission fluid but sure enough I was wrong. 

I hope so.


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[Hexa Fox]

Just now, KARNUT said:

I hope so.


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Me too babes, me too. 

[txab]

 

This is a good example for others..... look up what your refill capacity is before you start your project. Have that amount plus maybe an extra qt or so.

 

[sefiroxx]

Anyway back on topic, the truck is up and running again. I put a whole gallon and a little bit of the second one in and pumped some more out until I mostly saw red running out. I kept checking the dip stick and it said it was within operating level. So I backed it up a little, drive it forward a little, and checked again. Then it was not reading so I put the entire second gallon in. Then I decided to put the Lucas Conditioner in as well. I drove it around our development which is almost exactly a two mile drive all together. 
 
While I was driving it either the second or third gear makes a really, really rough transition. I would like to say I know what a slip feels like and this was definitely more of a big bang and stall than a "slip". So when I got it back home I checked the oil level again and the stick is dry. So I just bought another gallon and waiting for it to get here. I really hope that there is no damage. I put nine quarts in it all together and might have pumped two or three out max when I was trying to get the old oil out. 
 
Is it normal for the transmission to slip that hard if it is low on oil? I am hoping added the additional oil will resolve my issue. 

2 cents:
HARSH SHIFT:
- accumulater valve or spring may have failed. This cushions the shift.
- TPS may be failing. This is used for timing of the shift.
- Leaking valve seals or sticky checkballs causing delay in shifting.
(1st and 3rd would require just a rebuilt valve body and could be done on the truck)

LOW OIL
- reduced line pressure reduces ability of a valve to hold resulting in slippage of clutch or band causing increased erosion of material. Likely did not break anything, but just sped up the inevitable rebuild timing

HIGH OIL
- Oil interferes with the ability of the pump to circulate fluid. Valves etc control direction of flow but the flow must have the ability to fall into the pan. If fluid is in the way, then the pump and seals are at risk of falling add the fluid has to go somewhere.

[Hexa Fox]

On 10/10/2018 at 7:55 PM, txab said:

This is a good example for others..... look up what your refill capacity is before you start your project. Have that amount plus maybe an extra qt or so.

 

I understand, and yes I was aware that I would require around three gallons. However, I was under the impression that the two gallons I had and the Lucas Conditioner might fill it up. Then worst case scenario I could go pick up a couple quarts at my local store or something. What I did not plan on is them not carrying the ACDelco brand. I figured I could locate it somewhere or another. As I mentioned on the previous forum I misunderstood the process. 

 

As in I thought pumping out the fluid once, pulling the pan and filter was the end of it as far as getting the oil out. Yeah if someone else is reading, this is definitely something I will have in mind for next time. 

[carkhz316]

14 hours ago, sefiroxx said:

2 cents:
HARSH SHIFT:
- accumulater valve or spring may have failed. This cushions the shift.
- TPS may be failing. This is used for timing of the shift.
- Leaking valve seals or sticky checkballs causing delay in shifting.
(1st and 3rd would require just a rebuilt valve body and could be done on the truck)

LOW OIL
- reduced line pressure reduces ability of a valve to hold resulting in slippage of clutch or band causing increased erosion of material. Likely did not break anything, but just sped up the inevitable rebuild timing

HIGH OIL
- Oil interferes with the ability of the pump to circulate fluid. Valves etc control direction of flow but the flow must have the ability to fall into the pan. If fluid is in the way, then the pump and seals are at risk of falling add the fluid has to go somewhere.

During normal operation, the valve body on the 4L60 is almost completely submerged in transmission fluid with a proper fill level, so that won't really be an issue. Think of sticking a garden hose in a bucket of water. It'll exhaust the fluid just fine if under any pressure (almost all of it is). The biggest danger of over filling is if it reaches the level of the gear train where it it'll be aerated and hitting the spinning parts. Rest of what you said is on point.

 

In regards to LOW fluid level, the first symptoms you'd notice is slipping at highway speeds and/ or loss of TC lockup or overdrive. The more components and clutches engaged, the more fluid quantity is needed at that given time. At highway speeds (~45pmh) and above, you have the following applied: Forward clutch, Torque converter clutch, 3-4 clutch, and 2-4 band. In my experience, the 2-4 usually drops out first due to low fluid. You'll observe this as no OD/ 4th.

 

Lastly, on the total system capacity is between 12-14 qts, depending of towing package, coolers, configuration, etc.

[Hexa Fox]

Okay gentleman, I put about half of the third gallon in today and let it run a little while. I kept checking the level and it said it was pretty overfilled. However, just like it says on the dipstick, you need to have the engine running and hot. So I knew that I had enough in there this time so decided to take it for a drive and see if that "slam shifting" was still occurring. I am happy to say that it is now shifting more smoothly than it ever has in the past. Anyway I checked it again before I turned it off and the oil is about half an inch above where it is suppose to be. However, the transmission only got to about 120 degree (F).

 

So I think maybe after oil has gotten to all the nooks and crannies and after it is fully hot I imagine it could even be a little low??? I know that the crankcase should never be over the line because of the additional pressure it can create. However, is it okay to drive it around with the fluid a little over where it is suppose to be? We also do not have anywhere that is completely flat.

 

If I decide to keep the truck again I figure I will pull the return line again after 60,000 more miles or so and pump some of the old stuff out and leave the pan and filter be. 

 

By the way my dash board keeps saying "engine oil low, add oil" and I know it is not. I have checked it too and it is fine. I thought it meant the transmission at first but I know it should have a good amount in it now. 

[Black02Silverado]

Not good to over fill the transmission.  As it gets up to temp it will even be higher on the dipstick.  That is why there is a low cold level and high hot level. You want it in between those marks.

 

As for the  engine, make sure you didn't mess with the oil level sensor plug.

[Hexa Fox]

4 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Not good to over fill the transmission.  As it gets up to temp it will even be higher on the dipstick.  That is why there is a low cold level and high hot level. You want it in between those marks.

 

As for the  engine, make sure you didn't mess with the oil level sensor plug.

I will run it again tomorrow and see exactly what it reads. If it is over are there any ideas? Is there a hand pump I could purchase to get some out? I guess maybe I should have bought one with a drain bolt on it like txab mentioned much earlier... oh well. 

 

The oil sensor level plug? I have no clue what that is. If you care to explain and I will Google as well. 

 

I have been outside cleaning the truck up, I just got done using a foam lance loaded with dawn to wash, then used a clay bar, rinse it clean, and wiped it down. It looks pretty awesome, I am planning on buying a Milwaukee buffer tool and polishing out the scratches and finally waxing it. It already looks pretty awesome. Hope I got far enough off topic there so you guys know it is really me.