Shake or Vibration Issues

Jesse Davidson · August 8, 2015

Hopefully I end up being the hero and not the guinea pig that wasted 400 dollars.

my concern is that although it may make it so you don't feel the vibe, it will still be there, whether its the rear diff, AFM, tires, driveshaft etc. whatever it is. the longer its there, the worse it is for the fatigue life of the parts, and the sooner the truck will fail. I'd rather get the real issue fixed than just mask it. May do it to improve the ride after, but its like putting a bandaid on a cut off finger, may help stop the bleeding, but it wont put your finger back on.

tnchevy · August 8, 2015

How can you not feel a vibration but it still bad enough to tear your truck up? You do know that all vehicles have moving parts and all vehicles vibrate so some degree. Body dampners and engine dampners are what all manufacturers use to keep the driver from noticing it. Unless you have a part that is way out of spect then your truck is not going to wear out any faster than any other truck on here.

C6Bill · August 8, 2015

We need a poll or two added to this, rim size and if you do or do not have a bed cover. I'm wondering how many with 18 inch rims and no bed cover have this issue.

Jesse Davidson · August 8, 2015

How can you not feel a vibration but it still bad enough to tear your truck up? You do know that all vehicles have moving parts and all vehicles vibrate so some degree. Body dampners and engine dampners are what all manufacturers use to keep the driver from noticing it. Unless you have a part that is way out of spect then your truck is not going to wear out any faster than any other truck on here.

The frame and drive components would still be vibrating, (causing the excessive wear and eventually premature failure) the new "improved" shackle dampers, may help to reduce/eliminate it from the cab, but it still isn't fixing the actual issue. Yes vehicles used dampers to reduce it, but right now, it's not just road force we are feeling, it is physical issues with the drive components. It would be like putting a bandaid on to cover it up, but wouldn't fix the issues at their roots.

Look at it like this:

Drive shaft: A drive shaft goes through whats called Pure Rotational Fatigue being that it is spinning, it is under Cyclic Non-uniform Loading, as well as Torsional Fatigue at the drive shaft coupling. If the part is made out of spec (unbalanced) or improperly installed (misaligned), the shaft experiences excess torque & bending, which will lead to a failure at any point of imperfection, whether it be a slight scratch that starts to corrode, a portion of the shaft that has was we call "schmutz" or improperly formed metal within a part, or outside derbis that shouldn't be there to begin with. All of these are detrimental to mechanical parts, and while the shackles may mask the problem, it doesn't fix it. they will remain improperly aligned, mis balanced, whatever it may be, leading to premature failure.

it will be a similar scenario for the rest of the trucks, the vibration shakes/ rattles, and moves the other parts of within the vehicle causing premature failure albeit not as fast as the part(s) that have the actual problem.

Hope this makes sense

Jesse

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jesse D

C6Bill · August 8, 2015

Nice to meet you today Jesse. I think we are in agreement, after taking both vehicles for a ride today, that there is a big difference in the ride quality of the two vehicles.

We used water bottles to try and gauge the difference in vibration from idle up through 75 MPH.

And I would also say that prior to my dealer changing my rear shocks and putting on 4 new GoodYear Eagle LS2's that I had similar vibration issues to what you have right now at highway speeds.

Things to keep in mind, I have a 2014 with 20 inch rims and a 6.2 L V8 and Jesse has a 2015 with 22 inch rims, Bridgestone tires ?, with the 4.3 L V6. Yet we both have, or had, the same or extremely similar vibration. And both are 4x4 Crew Cabs with a short box.

And your radio sucks while mine does not lol

I'm looking forward to seeing what your truck rides like when you put the 18 inch rims back on this week.

Edited August 8, 2015 by C6Bill

TheFactor · August 8, 2015

Just some info for those comparing models with the vibration issue . My 2014 Silverado was a standard cab/bed WT 17 inch rims . Vibration at 20mph up to 30 mph. Had the V6 also ....

Edited August 9, 2015 by TheFactor

abominable z71 · August 8, 2015

my concern is that although it may make it so you don't feel the vibe, it will still be there, whether its the rear diff, AFM, tires, driveshaft etc. whatever it is. the longer its there, the worse it is for the fatigue life of the parts, and the sooner the truck will fail. I'd rather get the real issue fixed than just mask it. May do it to improve the ride after, but its like putting a bandaid on a cut off finger, may help stop the bleeding, but it wont put your finger back on.

I agree masking a problem isn't the proper way to go about eliminating the vibrations. I'm looking at the shackles to improve overall ride quality as I drive the truck unloaded 99 percent of the time and I think the rear springs are too stiff without any weight in the truck, I'm hoping they take away some of the harshness out of the spring rate of the rear springs. If they eliminate the vibration I'm feeling in the cab I'll let everyone know that too.

I agree that the vibrations could lead to fatigue failure but the amplitude of the principal stresses also plays a large part in the number of cycles to failure and if they're below the critical limit they are just going to be annoying and never lead to fatigue failure. When I was in college we did fatigue testing on a bunch of 6061 aluminum rods and loaded them in pure torsion with equal alternating loads and varied the input torque for each sample and the test machine counted cycles til failure. As long as the stress stayed in the elastic deformation range on the stress strain curve for the material the part never failed this is also a possibility on these trucks an annoying vibration that's just that, annoying but not detrimental to any component, at that point all you need to do is remove the transmission path between the source and occupants in the cab. This is the route I would expect to see from the manufacture as well. Different body mounts that insulate the occupants from the vibration source. Dodge did this in the current Ram 1500 by attaching dampers to the frame and GM did this with GMT 900 HD trucks to mask the frame beaming problems by changing the rear cab mount.

my concern is that although it may make it so you don't feel the vibe, it will still be there, whether its the rear diff, AFM, tires, driveshaft etc. whatever it is. the longer its there, the worse it is for the fatigue life of the parts, and the sooner the truck will fail. I'd rather get the real issue fixed than just mask it. May do it to improve the ride after, but its like putting a bandaid on a cut off finger, may help stop the bleeding, but it wont put your finger back on.

I agree masking a problem isn't the proper way to go about eliminating the vibrations. I'm looking at the shackles to improve overall ride quality as I drive the truck unloaded 99 percent of the time and I think the rear springs are too stiff without any weight in the truck, I'm hoping they take away some of the harshness out of the spring rate of the rear springs. If they eliminate the vibration I'm feeling in the cab I'll let everyone know that too.

I agree that the vibrations could lead to fatigue failure but the amplitude of the principal stresses also plays a large part in the number of cycles to failure and if they're below the critical limit they are just going to be annoying and never lead to fatigue failure. When I was in college we did fatigue testing on a bunch of 6061 aluminum rods and loaded them in pure torsion with equal alternating loads and varied the input torque for each sample and the test machine counted cycles til failure. As long as the stress stayed in the elastic deformation range on the stress strain curve for the material the part never failed this is also a possibility on these trucks an annoying vibration that's just that, annoying but not detrimental to any component, at that point all you need to do is remove the transmission path between the source and occupants in the cab. This is the route I would expect to see from the manufacture as well. Different body mounts that insulate the occupants from the vibration source. Dodge did this in the current Ram 1500 by attaching dampers to the frame and GM did this with GMT 900 HD trucks to mask the frame beaming problems by changing the rear cab mount.

Jesse Davidson · August 8, 2015

I agree masking a problem isn't the proper way to go about eliminating the vibrations. I'm looking at the shackles to improve overall ride quality as I drive the truck unloaded 99 percent of the time and I think the rear springs are too stiff without any weight in the truck, I'm hoping they take away some of the harshness out of the spring rate of the rear springs. If they eliminate the vibration I'm feeling in the cab I'll let everyone know that too.

I agree that the vibrations could lead to fatigue failure but the amplitude of the principal stresses also plays a large part in the number of cycles to failure and if they're below the critical limit they are just going to be annoying and never lead to fatigue failure. When I was in college we did fatigue testing on a bunch of 6061 aluminum rods and loaded them in pure torsion with equal alternating loads and varied the input torque for each sample and the test machine counted cycles til failure. As long as the stress stayed in the elastic deformation range on the stress strain curve for the material the part never failed this is also a possibility on these trucks an annoying vibration that's just that, annoying but not detrimental to any component, at that point all you need to do is remove the transmission path between the source and occupants in the cab. This is the route I would expect to see from the manufacture as well. Different body mounts that insulate the occupants from the vibration source. Dodge did this in the current Ram 1500 by attaching dampers to the frame and GM did this with GMT 900 HD trucks to mask the frame beaming problems by changing the rear cab mount.

I agree masking a problem isn't the proper way to go about eliminating the vibrations. I'm looking at the shackles to improve overall ride quality as I drive the truck unloaded 99 percent of the time and I think the rear springs are too stiff without any weight in the truck, I'm hoping they take away some of the harshness out of the spring rate of the rear springs. If they eliminate the vibration I'm feeling in the cab I'll let everyone know that too.

I agree that the vibrations could lead to fatigue failure but the amplitude of the principal stresses also plays a large part in the number of cycles to failure and if they're below the critical limit they are just going to be annoying and never lead to fatigue failure. When I was in college we did fatigue testing on a bunch of 6061 aluminum rods and loaded them in pure torsion with equal alternating loads and varied the input torque for each sample and the test machine counted cycles til failure. As long as the stress stayed in the elastic deformation range on the stress strain curve for the material the part never failed this is also a possibility on these trucks an annoying vibration that's just that, annoying but not detrimental to any component, at that point all you need to do is remove the transmission path between the source and occupants in the cab. This is the route I would expect to see from the manufacture as well. Different body mounts that insulate the occupants from the vibration source. Dodge did this in the current Ram 1500 by attaching dampers to the frame and GM did this with GMT 900 HD trucks to mask the frame beaming problems by changing the rear cab mount.

One thing to keep in mind is that those tests are typically done in pure torsion, pure tension, or pure compression, these vibrations are considered a reversed loading in the form of propagation (a slight bend or shake back and forth) so they are very different loading styles and Pure Tension/Compression/Torsion will return to its normal elastic range as long as it wasn't exceeded in the first place, the propagation grinds/ wears and causes micro stress cracks that end up being the stress concentration, and eventually the point of failure, the methods are just two entirely different things.

I can't speak to as to how ram dampened their vibration, I don't fully know what exactly they had, and I do agree that those rubber shackles could potentially really improve the ride, however I stick by the fact that it isn't a fix for the real issues at hand, it would simply be a bandaid that masks them.

I'm really not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to state my feeling at this point in time about it. I may end up getting some and putting them on myself, I think they look awesome, but it won't be until the Vibes are actually fixed.

Nice to meet you today Jesse. I think we are in agreement, after taking both vehicles for a ride today, that there is a big difference in the ride quality of the two vehicles.

We used water bottles to try and gauge the difference in vibration from idle up through 75 MPH.

And I would also say that prior to my dealer changing my rear shocks and putting on 4 new GoodYear Eagle LS2's that I had similar vibration issues to what you have right now at highway speeds.

Things to keep in mind, I have a 2014 with 20 inch rims and a 6.2 L V8 and Jesse has a 2015 with 22 inch rims, Bridgestone tires ?, with the 4.3 L V6. Yet we both have, or had, the same or extremely similar vibration. And both are 4x4 Crew Cabs with a short box.

And your radio sucks while mine does not lol

I'm looking forward to seeing what your truck rides like when you put the 18 inch rims back on this week.

Bill, it was great to meet you today as well,

It was really interesting to see the two trucks and be able to compare them side by side (one after the other) for they issues, and I think we found some really good points to keep an eye on and bring up here.

Yes, the trucks have different engines, rim and tire sizes, and trim levels, but I think it still gave some insight into what the issues, and potential fixes may be.

Engine Mount on the 4.3 V6:

We did a water bottle test on the engines themselves, my 4.3 V6 would just about walk the full water bottle off the engine because it vibrates/ shakes so much even at idle, while Bill's 6.2 V8 remained pretty consistent and calm, with only a couple moments that it had a little really noticeable vibe, but most of the time it was calm and the water bottle didn't walk.

The Engines (regarding air fuel ratio & air flow):

The 4.3 runs a fair amount rougher than the 6.2, one of the theories was whether or not the air intake is getting enough constant air or if the ECU is adjusting it and causing it to run lean or heavy making it rougher. I have actually been contemplating this since I bought my truck because I have noticed that pretty frequently, especially at idle when sitting in traffic, my A/C dips as I slow and stop, occasionally blowing somewhat warm air and a slower speed through the vents, even when I have it set for 60 degrees. (this could also possible help with the AFM Vibe? I don't really know for sure, but could be worth testing a high flow cold air intake maybe?)

The Rims, Tires:

Between Bill and I, we can test the 18", 20", and 22" rims, as Bill mentioned, the when his dealer swapped his 20"'s for 18" his truck rode like a dream with no vibrations, but when they put the new 20" 's back on, it was worse than when he first brought it in. They ended up changing the model of the tire to the Goodyear Eagle LS2 and it now rides "almost as good as with the 18" 's with very little vibration. My 22's with Bridgestone Dueler RHS's are the only rim/tire combo I've tried thus far, This coming week, I am pulling my set of 18" 's with the Goodyear Wrangler SRA's out of the warehouse, and Bill and I are going to see if and how they change the ride/ vibration that occurs in my truck. I think it will be a very interesting test, as I've never had them on the truck before.

The Shocks:

When Bill's truck was in, they replaced his rear shocks, mind you he has less than 5k miles and his shocks were "shot" when we checked them out, we noticed that his had a different OE replacement part # my truck was OE 18708 where his was OE 18707, don't really know what the difference is, but the part number does differ. One of the things that concerned me was, did Bill just get a bad set from the get go? Or is something mis-aligned that caused them to fail? I guess time will tell on that one, but hopefully it was only part of a bad batch and nothing bad with his truck.

The Drive:

Bill's truck was substantially more smooth than mine, even with the water bottle test, it was clear that his truck had less vibration than mine now, in his truck, they remained calm even while accelerating. In my truck this wasn't the case, even at idle without moving, the water was going pretty good, not as bad as some of the people on here have posted, but good nonetheless. Bill actually said something along the lines of "it reminds me of how my truck was before the apparent fix". so there is possibly hope after all.

All in all, I think we have found some thing that could use taking a look at, and in the mean time, I'm going to continue to tinker around with some things here and there to see if anything helps. I am interested to see how much of a difference the tire make, if any for that matter. I feel we have pretty much narrowed the majority of my vibration directly to the engine/ engine mount, whether I just have a bad mount or the whole mount design is flawed, I don't know. After I swap out the tires, and Bill and I meet again, I will take a video of the water bottles on on the engines to show the difference, is someone else wants to do the same on their engines, it will be really interesting to compare the results.

Jesse

Wrench589 · August 9, 2015

Don't forget, a V6 engine is inherently much, much rougher running than a V8 by design. Has to do with the torque pulses from the crankshaft/firing order as well as the exhaust pulses. Been that way since V6's started showing up en-mass in the 80's. Only smooth running V6 engines are the ones with a built in balance shaft, which I don't think the Chevy engine has. So, don't spend too much time trying to get it to run as smooth as the 6.2L. That is one of the smoothest engines on the planet. The new generation of Chevy V8's has a different firing order/crankshaft design than the old Chevy small block, to further refine the mechanical and exhaust pulses, and it works. I don't believe the V6 has anywhere near that level of technology.

You know the old sayin'...can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear!

C6Bill · August 9, 2015

While that may be true I'm not sure you should feel it in your feet while just sitting at an idle.

Jesse Davidson · August 10, 2015

Don't forget, a V6 engine is inherently much, much rougher running than a V8 by design. Has to do with the torque pulses from the crankshaft/firing order as well as the exhaust pulses. Been that way since V6's started showing up en-mass in the 80's. Only smooth running V6 engines are the ones with a built in balance shaft, which I don't think the Chevy engine has. So, don't spend too much time trying to get it to run as smooth as the 6.2L. That is one of the smoothest engines on the planet. The new generation of Chevy V8's has a different firing order/crankshaft design than the old Chevy small block, to further refine the mechanical and exhaust pulses, and it works. I don't believe the V6 has anywhere near that level of technology.

You know the old sayin'...can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear!

gotta agree with Bill here, regardless of how "smooth" it may or may not run, that fact that it shakes/ vibrates enough to be felt throughout cab is a problem, and shows a design flaw with the engine itself or the engine mount. and if that is the case, they really should use the same balancing techniques for the V6 as they do in the V8, you cant tell the Ram is a V6 through vibration like this, could be a better mount or damping, i don't really know. regardless, my cab shouldn't be vibrating from it, I consider it a design flaw nonetheless.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jesse D

TheFactor · August 10, 2015

Just watched a GMC " Made with Precision " commercial . No disrespect to current owners but from my short ownership with my Silverado it made me almost fall off the couch .

TheFactor · August 10, 2015

gotta agree with Bill here, regardless of how "smooth" it may or may not run, that fact that it shakes/ vibrates enough to be felt throughout cab is a problem, and shows a design flaw with the engine itself or the engine mount. and if that is the case, they really should use the same balancing techniques for the V6 as they do in the V8, you cant tell the Ram is a V6 through vibration like this, could be a better mount or damping, i don't really know. regardless, my cab shouldn't be vibrating from it, I consider it a design flaw nonetheless.

My 2015 Hemi truck is so smooth at idle you can't even tell it's running . The ride is pretty smooth to and that's priceless !

My V6 Silverado I Traded in was pretty darn smooth at idle also for a 6 but just don't drive between 20 and 30mph .

Edited August 10, 2015 by TheFactor

Cougfan · August 10, 2015

I'm kind of late to the party here but I have the vibration issue with my 2014 Regular cab 2WD Z71 with the 5.3 so I came here to see if anyone else was having the same problem. I bought the truck in May 2014 and just turned 10,000 miles and the vibration seems to be getting worse over time.

I have had the wheels balanced and rotated twice thinking that was the problem (both times all 4 tires were out of balance) but the vibration didn't go away. I didn't make it through all 350+ pages in this thread but from what I saw, there is no fix for the problem. I just don't have the time or energy to fight GM on this one. I applaud those that are and I hope you get a good resolution.

This is such a disappointment. I really like the GM trucks better than the other two but I'm not going to waste my time trying to get it fixed at this point since there isn't a realistic fix anyway.

I've only had my truck a year but I think I will live with the problem for another year and then move on to Ram or Ford.

Laura

Jesse Davidson · August 10, 2015

My 2015 Hemi truck is so smooth at idle you can't even tell it's running . The ride is pretty smooth to and that's priceless !

My V6 Silverado I Traded in was pretty darn smooth at idle also for a 6 but just don't drive between 20 and 30mph .

haha yea, If only I could just jump any and all speeds with a vibration.... wait they all do, I'm fully regretting this truck right now and wish I just got the Ram

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jesse D