Engine issue

[TXGREEK]

No parts available? What, they have a run on lifters all of a sudden? Either BS or more folks having that problem than they let on.

It’s due to the BS GM Union, there’s a shutdown in shipping and receiving as well with huge amounts of spares ready but with all those lights on, no ones home!


Sent from Above

[oak 1971]

12 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

 

It’s due to the BS GM Union, there’s a shutdown in shipping and receiving as well with huge amounts of spares ready but with all those lights on, no ones home!


Sent from Above

 

Poop.

[L86 All Terrain]

This should become a thread about the pros and cons to Amsoil any minute now. 

 

If today's best synthetic oils cant last 5,000 miles in new motor you're in trouble. You shouldn't even be beginning to break it down at that point. Just out of curiosity, is that statement right from your ass, or do you have oil analysis data on various oils at that specific mileage to warrant your claims?  Oil life is most dependant on the workload of the engine and drivetrain. If you tow 5,000lbs everyday, then yes, perhaps 5,000miles would be a good interval. If you're commuting and never exceed 3,000rpm with no payload that would be a waste of money and good oil. 

[TXGREEK]

This should become a thread about the pros and cons to Amsoil any minute now. 
 
If today's best synthetic oils cant last 5,000 miles in new motor you're in trouble. You shouldn't even be beginning to break it down at that point. Just out of curiosity, is that statement right from your ass, or do you have oil analysis data on various oils at that specific mileage to warrant your claims?  Oil life is most dependant on the workload of the engine and drivetrain. If you tow 5,000lbs everyday, then yes, perhaps 5,000miles would be a good interval. If you're commuting and never exceed 3,000rpm with no payload that would be a waste of money and good oil. 

Is that what you’re trying to achieve, an oil debate? Seems Amsoil is on everyone’s mind lol!


Sent from Above

[TXGREEK]

It won’t matter how much proof is put down on the table, everyone will stick with what’s best for them. I along with others can show proof based on lab results etc etc etc but it won’t matter, everyone is going to use what they want. As a matter of fact, I used to not care either until out of curiosity I decided to take a leap into the differences between 100% synthetic and Full Synthetic and to many, it won’t make a difference, it’ll be business as usual.

Anyway, good luck to OP, hope it all works itself out.


Sent from Above

[Grumpy Bear]

Of topic but interesting. This was part of the article offered on how these pumps work early in this thread. 

 

https://www.underhoodservice.com/variable-displacement-future-oil-pump/

 

 

The GM LT1 uses a variable displacement oil pump that enables more efficient oil delivery, per the engine’s operating conditions. Its dual-pressure control enables operation at a very efficient oil pressure at lower rpm coordinated with AFM and delivers higher pressure at higher engine speeds. Extra pressure can be requested from the pump for the oil jets on the pistons. The oil jets are used only when they are needed the most: at start-up, giving the cylinders extra lubrication that reduces noise, and at higher engine speeds, or when the engine load demands, for extra cooling and greater durability.

 

Back to your regularly scheduled oil debate. 

 

[NomadicCPO]

On 10/20/2019 at 5:52 PM, dukedkt442 said:

He said himself he’s at 55% oil. He’s due for oil change. I’m making the assumption that previous oil changes were extended well beyond that. These engines are known for failure only in the wrong hands. 

 

At such early mileage, greater than 9 out of 10 problems I’ve had people come to me with, or I’ve had to respond to, were due to operator error. 

 

Truth hurts. 

This has got to be the dumbest post I’ve read in awhile (and there are plenty to be found).  Perhaps you should had added to your unfounded list of assumptions that no engine has ever left the factory with a defect that caused premature failure in the history of car manufacture, or that no modern engine is capable of making it past 5000 miles of service between oil changes without imploding despite 7500 miles or more being the standard in pretty much every vehicle made in the last 10 years and everywhere else in the world before that.

 

Keep assuming and showing everyone how dumb you sound.

[Nitrousbird]

On 10/20/2019 at 7:56 PM, dukedkt442 said:

Why is it so hard to comprehend that the OLM is designed to get most of the engines through the warranty, and not actual longevity?  5k miles max on full synthetic, which on mine come to 60-65%.  Otherwise, reap the consequences.

You are spouting total BS.  Have you ever done an oil analysis?  I have (though not on my current truck, as I'm only 5800 miles and changed it around 2000).  Last one I did on my BMW, an early direct injection, very hot running twin turbo I6 running double the stock boost - and I run the piss out of it - had around 6500 miles on that oil.  Analysis showed it was good for another 1000, had good viscosity, all wear was within tolerances, no fuel in the oil, etc.  Factory oil cooler and it runs 215 - 245 degree oil temps on every drive I make.  That oil lives a harder life than most trucks here ever will - yet 6500 miles was fine.

 

Come on, back up your BS with something.

[Grumpy Bear]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiKmebM-6_lAhVKmK0KHZ8KB18QFjAFegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2075-4442%2F3%2F1%2F54&usg=AOvVaw2IXIXkWbwBJYnlUgqhWdAT&cshid=1571750812550015

 

If you can muddle through this PDF and understand what it is saying you will come to some rather eye opening conclusions.

That thermal degradation is a function of not just time/hours/miles but sensible heat/pressure/shear. You may already know this much from your "back O' the bottle" education, but if you read the text and compare with the graphs your going to find that the oil is chemically altered well before the UOA will send up a RED FLAG. You've observed this if you are a YouTube sort when viewing films of NOACH test on hot plates. Simple heating for a short period of time alters the color. Thermal oxidation. 

 

You might note from the PDF that Group III Synthetics are subject to rapid degradation at temperatures as low as 125 C (248 F). ( a large segment of the synthetic market) That is a temperature high enough to rapidly accelerate thermal oxidation to the point of chemical alteration in the length of time to do the test in a lab setting. It's happening at a slower pace well before then. This process happens over a RANGE of temperatures and over time and increase with either an increase in TIME OR TEMPERAUTE. (Once the threshold is met. Which varies with the exact chemistry.) Charts are approximations.  

 

You might say "So what". If you do consider this. The chemical company went to great lengths to synthesize a very specific molecule (C34H70 in this Shell Oil case) or group of molecules (Shell semisynthetic) that will meet a particular standard as would be during testing an ASE certification. If any old chemistry that was close enough for horseshoes would do, then why be so particular? It would be much cheaper to make the secondary reaction first. You could literally just distill that. Then consider how many tested virgin oils 'barely' make the standard. How much push do they need to fail it?  

 

5.6 cP to 9.3 cP. That is the SAE W20 spec. That range can be met by several combinations of hydrocarbon chemistries. This, in part,  the reason for a "range". Thing is, and especially in the case of a single molecule chemistry, that chemistry has but ONE possible value so being in 'range' does not mean the molecule you started with is the molecule you have now. ANY change no matter the chemistry is a change in chemistry. 

 

Find table #1 in the PDF and observe the chemical alteration with temperature and time as seen by GC/MS analysis. Won't get that testing done for A hundred bucks. Even Nitration test only indicate direction not location along the process.  

 

UAO is down and dirty. Granted more accurate than the 'eyeball' method or rubbing oil between your fingers but not the Holy Grail either. It tells you more about the condition of the motor IN THIS MOMENT than that of the oil.  

 

Neither side of the endless oil debates is batting 1,000. 
All sides are some facts, some conjecture, some guesses and allot of personal observations and their conclusions. 

Most (but not all) of it based on Marketing, trust in ballpark YouTube testing and Internet surfs. 

No ones purpose if fulfilled in beating each other up. 

 

A forum such as this could have allot of power IF people could lean to pick the fly poop out of the peppershaker and pool the best of each sides knowledge, dismissing the smoke and mirrors. 

lubricants-03-00054 (1).pdf

[MaverickZ71]

21 hours ago, newdude said:

Dude had a lifter collapse per a few posts up.  No oil could have prevented an AFM lifter failure.  Luck of the draw.  VLOM solenoid failure, oil aeration, faulty lifter, etc.  Shite happens.  Low miles, high miles.  Some never have an issue, like the farmer with 150k we have who idles all day long, lets it run past 0% and uses our GM bulk Dexos oil.      

 

All I see in here is a giant Amsoil brigade                        

BUT But but, according to a number of certain armchair oil experts on this forum (who were probably kicked off of BITOG), if GM used AMSoil as factory fill, they'd never have a warranty claim ever again.  Not even on non-powertrain parts!  

[oak 1971]

18 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Of topic but interesting. This was part of the article offered on how these pumps work early in this thread. 

 

https://www.underhoodservice.com/variable-displacement-future-oil-pump/

 

 

The GM LT1 uses a variable displacement oil pump that enables more efficient oil delivery, per the engine’s operating conditions. Its dual-pressure control enables operation at a very efficient oil pressure at lower rpm coordinated with AFM and delivers higher pressure at higher engine speeds. Extra pressure can be requested from the pump for the oil jets on the pistons. The oil jets are used only when they are needed the most: at start-up, giving the cylinders extra lubrication that reduces noise, and at higher engine speeds, or when the engine load demands, for extra cooling and greater durability.

 

Back to your regularly scheduled oil debate. 

 

So they are going to intentionally deprive specific critical parts of the engine proper oiling. All in an effort to appease the almighty EPA. Great plan.

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, oak 1971 said:

So they are going to intentionally deprive specific critical parts of the engine proper oiling. All in an effort to appease the almighty EPA. Great plan.

Not quite. Piston oil jets while not totally new to IEC's have only become popular in the last few decades as power density has been driven up. In HD TC88 for instance these jets are always running. In the Honda CB 705 of the 70's they were unheard of. They were used during WWII for in some radial motors. It comes and goes.  

 

You may have noted the article made mention of regulating oil to the heads for combustion chamber temperature control. Part of the "keep it living" ideas of 87 octane fueling VVT/VVL 11:1 mechanical compression motors. Hardly required a few decade earlier. 

 

It isn't depravation. It's select use to achieve a goal. The consumer has to remember YOU ASKED FOR THIS. Directly, indirectly people clamor for things like zero emissions while exceeding 125 horsepower per liter performance. This is how they delivered it. Your going to wish yourselves out of ICE's and into electric motors. 

[oak 1971]

Perhaps, but I still can't shake the feeling that some cost engineer with more calculators than slide rules determined they can make more $$ coming in under CAFE standards than they pay out in warranty. After the powertrain warranty is up the potential outcomes are yours alone to deal with.

[slimjim2525]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:49 AM, Jh8473 said:

I heard Supertech 0w 20 was better than Amsoil, is that true?

Not better, but equally as good when changed by GM recommendations.  

[2018GMC]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:34 AM, Doublebase said:

With the tick I'd probably less worried...lot of people confuse the tick with the direct injection...I've personally heard that sound vary quite a bit, sometimes on the same engine depending on outside temperature, oil used, oil change interval, etc. But the bottom "knock"...I mean you never want to hear an engine knock or thumping on the bottom.

 

But if it is an oil pressure situation then I'd say yes, you could be having a lifter and bottom bearing failure going on. I believe the AFM requires a certain oil pressure to activate and operate properly...and obviously the bottom needs a certain pressure to properly feed those bearings. Let's hope it's not that...and no I haven't heard of many total engine failures on these trucks, so there is hope. 

 

One thing I will say - and I've said this time and time again - do not go 6,000 miles without checking your oil level...I have never seen one of these trucks come in the shop (for their oil change at 6,000 miles) and not be almost all the way down on the dipstick. I have never ever seen one properly filled up unless the customer opens the hood and adds some oil (heaven forbid they should do that). Jus this week saw another one...guy comes in...6,000 miles on the oil...68,000 on the truck...beautiful truck/20 inch rims, he's going to get new tires...pull that dipstick and the oil is barley on the stick. Happens every...single...time. I swear if you own one of these things, just open the hood half way through your oil change and dump 3/4 of a quart in there. 

Guessing this is why GM went to 8 qts on 2014+ LT engines. Due to oil consumption? Didn’t the previous gen 2007.5 - 2013 GMT900 hod the standard 5qts?