Shake or Vibration Issues

[BC87]

After 4 days in the shop the service writer told me they road force balanced again with a new machine they got from hunter. This must be the new machine they previously told me they had to purchase to remain in spec with GM requirements. Anyhow, he told me the Hunter guy used my truck for training and they re balanced all 4 tires. He told me my truck was all fixed. I made it 4 miles down the highway before it started vibrating again. I should be hearing from GM corporate today, I also sent them my video. We shall see what they say.

 

So what happened? The go fund me is shut down, did they threaten you?

[Gears and Gadgets]

So what happened? The go fund me is shut down, did they threaten you?

No threats (although I was assuming one was coming). I just decided the project deserves a little more planning. I don’t think GoFundMe was the best route. I want to do it right and I didn’t want to start it off half cocked. I would hate to raise money then find out I had problems with the ATF and couldn’t deliver what I promised. Again, if the project moves forward I just want to be sure I am 100% legit and can deliver what I promise.

[Wrench589]

Actually, Tires and every other part will change their characteristics as you drive there are different stresses, temperatures pressures etc on every single part which will change the characteristics even minimally but still a change. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that tires are or aren't the issue, I don't know what is and I don't believe tires have anything to do with it. I'm just talking from an engineering stand point.

 

 

Someone would have to go back and look for it, but I believe I did an analysis of what a few oz of additional weight on the outer edge of a rotor/ axle flange in rotation would correlate to. If I recall correctly, based on whoever it was that posted the weight of material was taken off of theirs after having them turned on a lathe, it became the equivalent of having a 15lb weight spinning on the outter edge.

15lb...don't think so.

 

It was Softail. Reported removing 18gm of material from the OD of the axle flange. That's 0.6 oz at that diameter. That would be an equivalent mass of about 1/4oz at the rim OD, where wheel weights are typically added to correct out of balance. 1/4oz is not a lot. If I recall correctly, when I was younger I worked at a service station and we sold tires and the smallest weight was 1/4oz. Certainly modern vehicles are more sensitive and balance tolerances are likely tighter now, but still, a 1/4oz is not much and a far cry from 15lb.

[evlwhtman]

Slanderous would imply that I am making false claims. I am not making any false claims or defamatory statements. I am simply stating facts and raising awareness for a problem that people are experiencing which seems to be largely ignored. It is really no different than fling a better business bureau claim, this is just a different approach.

Or, slander mean to injure by speaking ill of. There are a couple meanings or definitions of this term and all are subject to interpretation. Meaning i want to start a campain against this company by speaking ill of them. Then if you would like we can break down the definition of ill next, i am sure there are a few. My favorite is as follows, Ill:a : not meeting an accepted standard ill manners

b archaic : notably unskillful or inefficient

 

 

But i do understand where you are coming from on the issue.

Edited July 27, 2017 by evlwhtman

[Gears and Gadgets]

Or, [/size]slander mean to injure by speaking ill of. There are a couple meanings or definitions of this term and all are subject to interpretation. Meaning i want to start a campain against this company by speaking ill of them. Then if you would like we can break down the definition of ill next, i am sure there are a few. My favorite is as follows, Ill:[/size]a[/size] [/size]:[/size] not meeting an accepted standard [/size]ill manners[/size]

b archaic : notably unskillful or inefficient[/size]

Well then by that definition this entire forum would be slanderous. I would also make the argument that if GM is telling folks that this vibration is “within spec” then I would merely be reporting factual information confirmed by GM. If the perception of that statement by the general public were negative, they couldn’t hold me responsible for that. I have not lied about anything in my YouTube Series nor do I intend to. Please let me know if you disagree with any of my editing or production and I will issue a retraction if necessary. This is not a campaign as I am not pushing for one specific outcome. If they fixed the vibration I would report that and my series. There are a bunch of outcomes to this story, if they decide to take legal action to silence me I would like to think that would send a terrible message to future customers about how they handle customer relationsions.

 

Again let me know if you think I’m being unfair in any of my videos:

 

[evlwhtman]

Well then by that definition this entire forum would be slanderous. I would also make the argument that if GM is telling folks that this vibration is “within spec” then I would merely be reporting factual information confirmed by GM. If the perception of that statement by the general public were negative, they couldn’t hold me responsible for that. I have not lied about anything in my YouTube Series nor do I intend to. Please let me know if you disagree with any of my editing or production and I will issue a retraction if necessary. This is not a campaign as I am not pushing for one specific outcome. If they fixed the vibration I would report that and my series. There are a bunch of outcomes to this story, if they decide to take legal action to silence me I would like to think that would send a terrible message to future customers about how they handle customer relationsions.

 

Again let me know if you think I’m being unfair in any of my videos:

 

As I just previously stated, I understand where you are coming from a lot of us do I think you might have misconstrued what I am saying to you. I do not disagree with anything you have said, I am just saying to take it to a bigger scale that is all so please do not get offensive in thinking I am rebutting your point when I am agreeing with you just thinking on a bigger scale that is all.....And honestly they do not give a care about any one of us whatsoever. Is there anyone in this 756 page forum that has been silenced?

 

Now back to the forum......

Edited July 27, 2017 by evlwhtman

[Gears and Gadgets]

As I just previously stated, I understand where you are coming from a lot of us do I think you might have misconstrued what I am saying to you. I do not disagree with anything you have said, I am just saying to take it to a bigger scale that is all so please do not get offensive in thinking I am rebutting your point when I am agreeing with you just thinking on a bigger scale that is all.....And honestly they do not give a care about any one of us whatsoever. Is there anyone in this 756 page forum that has been silenced?

 

Now back to the forum......

Definitely. I wasn’t trying to be defensive or combative but I think I was. Sorry. Just a bit high strung and passionate about this whole situation. And now back to the forum...

[rhino68]

 

That is what I was thinking as well but I did check them and they are legit. I'm just going to keep filming and finding more cheap Hecho en Mexico parts out of spec and keep having them replace this junk until I get a buyback or lemon law. Like I said, as soon as I showed the dealership the video, they jumped on it. The service manager told me that the video for him was perfect, they have been having a really hard time having GM pay for the poorly manufactured parts so the more evidence you bring the better.

 

That really sucks man. Once i can find a set of aftermarket axles in stock I will order them and install them. Like stated before it will be my last "fix" I do and if it doesn't work then I might put the truck all back to stock and do the dealer tango. I think there are just a variance of different vibrations we are all experiencing. I know most everyone has a 1 piece aluminum driveshaft and its rare for others to have a 2 piece steel shaft like me. Crew cab 6.5' bed 2wd. Its a long driveshaft so that tells me If I'm experiencing the same talked about vibration as others with a single piece shaft then that should eliminate the problem. I am pretty much ready to give up. I absolutely love my truck and this is the only issue. I emailed AAM who supply the rear axles for GM and I am still waiting to hear back. I know I won't get a response, but its worth a try.

 

Regarding the axles, there was a lot of discussion on axles many months ago, when it was first discovered that the axle flanges were not running true. We discussed in great detail the radial runout of the Outside Diameter (OD) of the axle flange itself, and bottom line, from a weight-balance perspective it would be a small amount of unbalance. And, that surface is not part of the fitment for the wheel, so no effect there.

 

The bigger effect would seem to be the "face runout" of the axle flange. Or the wobble side-to-side that some videos showed. With the wheel mounted, this magnifies to quite a bit of side-to-side wobble at the tread which would certainly be felt in the vehicle, especially when the two wheels on the same axle "get in sync" with each other. (When they are out of sync, they would literally cancel each out quite nicely!) no amount of road force balancing the tires off the vehicle could ever correct this. I suspect that what is happening is the in-sync/out-of-sync effect is playing tricks on everyone, thinking some other corrective action had a positive effect until they go back in sync and magically "the vibration returns".

 

Back to the radial runout...the one thing that was never checked accurately was the bolt circle runout. Difficult to measure without a special jig or fixture. Would be interesting to see the result of that.

 

 

Also I do not think the vibration is from the axle flange, however I believe the axle flange is causing the tires to wear out creating "flat" spots which then lead to vibration. The added weight to the center of the wheel isn't enough to cause such a vibration. When most people here go to the dealer they get a road force balance and the problem is sometimes solved but comes back in 100 miles or so. Over time an out of round flange will cause the tire to become unbalanced again.

 

I did my best with some videos with the wheel bolt pattern runout and it seems true to me. At best i could do is hold the camera to the bedside of the truck and line up the outer edge of the bolts with a mark on the ground. I will try to post up my video of that. I didn't post it originally because it looked fine.

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by rhino68

[Silverado 6.2]

Regarding the axles, there was a lot of discussion on axles many months ago, when it was first discovered that the axle flanges were not running true. We discussed in great detail the radial runout of the Outside Diameter (OD) of the axle flange itself, and bottom line, from a weight-balance perspective it would be a small amount of unbalance. And, that surface is not part of the fitment for the wheel, so no effect there.

 

The bigger effect would seem to be the "face runout" of the axle flange. Or the wobble side-to-side that some videos showed. With the wheel mounted, this magnifies to quite a bit of side-to-side wobble at the tread which would certainly be felt in the vehicle, especially when the two wheels on the same axle "get in sync" with each other. (When they are out of sync, they would literally cancel each out quite nicely!) no amount of road force balancing the tires off the vehicle could ever correct this. I suspect that what is happening is the in-sync/out-of-sync effect is playing tricks on everyone, thinking some other corrective action had a positive effect until they go back in sync and magically "the vibration returns".

 

Back to the radial runout...the one thing that was never checked accurately was the bolt circle runout. Difficult to measure without a special jig or fixture. Would be interesting to see the result of that.

Set up a dial indicator and spin the wheel studs around until each one hits the indicator and take the reading, that should give a pretty close idea if they are off center.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Silverado 6.2

[abominable z71]

Set up a dial indicator and spin the wheel studs around until each one hits the indicator and take the reading, that should give a pretty close idea if they are off center.

its easier to check this with the rim and tire on since they are hub centric, the hub pilot dictates the centering of the rim not the wheel studs. Check the run out on the the edge of the rim. If it is moving up and down or left and right mark the high spot with some tape take the rim and tire off rotate it 180 degrees. If the wobble is still happening at the tape mark its wheel, if the wobble is now 180 degrees from the tape its the hub and likely the pilot is off center if its moving radially (up and down) or the hub face is warped or bent if you got lateral run out (side to side).

[Wrench589]

its easier to check this with the rim and tire on since they are hub centric, the hub pilot dictates the centering of the rim not the wheel studs. Check the run out on the the edge of the rim. If it is moving up and down or left and right mark the high spot with some tape take the rim and tire off rotate it 180 degrees. If the wobble is still happening at the tape mark its wheel, if the wobble is now 180 degrees from the tape its the hub and likely the pilot is off center if its moving radially (up and down) or the hub face is warped or bent if you got lateral run out (side to side).

True, the factory wheels are hub centric, so that hub OD can be checked with a finger dial. I checked mine and they are within a thou runout. BUT, I bought a set of aftermarket wheels for winter and the hub bore is larger, thus making them stud-centric! In my case, the aftermarket wheels seem to run a bit smoother, although could be the super-soft winter rubber doing that.

 

Ive commented on this before, but in my opinion, GM's design isn't the best. They use typical conical nuts into conical holes that are usually used for a stud-centric design, but then use the hub-centric design as well. So, those diameters all have to be machined perfectly concentric, or they will "fight" each other. Is that a problem? Can't say for sure. I suspect it would induce some stresses into the wheel and the hub. Is that an issue? Well, I would say no, if there was no problems with the vehicle. Except.....hmmmm. Nah, these vehicles are perfect!

[abominable z71]

True, the factory wheels are hub centric, so that hub OD can be checked with a finger dial. I checked mine and they are within a thou runout. BUT, I bought a set of aftermarket wheels for winter and the hub bore is larger, thus making them stud-centric! In my case, the aftermarket wheels seem to run a bit smoother, although could be the super-soft winter rubber doing that.

 

Ive commented on this before, but in my opinion, GM's design isn't the best. They use typical conical nuts into conical holes that are usually used for a stud-centric design, but then use the hub-centric design as well. So, those diameters all have to be machined perfectly concentric, or they will "fight" each other. Is that a problem? Can't say for sure. I suspect it would induce some stresses into the wheel and the hub. Is that an issue? Well, I would say no, if there was no problems with the vehicle. Except.....hmmmm. Nah, these vehicles are perfect!

Oh yeah, Everything is perfect to half a thousandths. You can get hub centric rings for aftermarket wheels basically a plastic or aluminum insert to match the outer diameter of the hub pilot 78.1 mm for these trucks if I remember correctly the outer OD of the ring has to match whatever the wheel manufactures hub bore spec is, I think the fuels I'm running are 108 mm. Can't say there is much of a difference with or without them though.

[kthomas72]

So at this point i have:

 

1 - Rebuilt an entirely new deiveshaft with spicer joints

 

2 - Replaced wheels and tires, went back to stock rims with new tires with 5 alignments and balances

 

3 - Had the poorly manufactured rear axles replaced

 

4 - Shimmed the rear end 2 - 4 degrees both ways

 

5 - Replaced front hubs and bearings

 

6 - Replaced front CV axel shafts (4x4)

 

7 - Shimmed the front differential then back to stock

 

8 - Installed Fox Coilovers, Rears and upper control arms then back to stock

 

9 - Re-torqued rear axle U-bolts

 

10 - Installed lowering shackles then back to stock

 

Plus a handful of other wishful thinking ideas that have come across the internet and with everything replaced and done I have had little to no resolution. If anything it has seem to move the vibrations to where they feel more forward in the truck. As of right now it feels like my steering is failing and sloppy but is still relative to the driveline based on being exacerbated under heavy torque load and freeway speeds. I would like to know if anyone has explored options outside of what I have don't so I can eliminate wasting more time and money. I still feel that it is something in the transmission or front differential.

[L86 All Terrain]

^^ Sounds like you have re-engineered 70% of your truck. The 14 WT i just bought does it too, I will be attaching a gopro along the driveline to see if i can detect where the oscillation begins. I was thinking driveshaft but obviously that did not remedy your issue. I will borrow the heavier wheels/tires from my non-vibrating 15 too to see if that changes anything. I cant believe the previous owner put up with it for 100,000km. I am usually under 65mph but over 65, it feels like I am going to shake a wheel off when I pass someone.

[Pinnacle]

So at this point i have:

 

1 - Rebuilt an entirely new deiveshaft with spicer joints

 

2 - Replaced wheels and tires, went back to stock rims with new tires with 5 alignments and balances

 

3 - Had the poorly manufactured rear axles replaced

 

4 - Shimmed the rear end 2 - 4 degrees both ways

 

5 - Replaced front hubs and bearings

 

6 - Replaced front CV axel shafts (4x4)

 

7 - Shimmed the front differential then back to stock

 

8 - Installed Fox Coilovers, Rears and upper control arms then back to stock

 

9 - Re-torqued rear axle U-bolts

 

10 - Installed lowering shackles then back to stock

 

Plus a handful of other wishful thinking ideas that have come across the internet and with everything replaced and done I have had little to no resolution. If anything it has seem to move the vibrations to where they feel more forward in the truck. As of right now it feels like my steering is failing and sloppy but is still relative to the driveline based on being exacerbated under heavy torque load and freeway speeds. I would like to know if anyone has explored options outside of what I have don't so I can eliminate wasting more time and money. I still feel that it is something in the transmission or front differential.

WOW, I have seen guys do half of what you have done, never seen that much work done before. After several years now I think this generation is a lost cause. GM is taking a huge hit on all their trucks including SUVs