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GM cutting warranty and included maintenance in 2016

Gorehamj

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Jsdirt Senior Enthusiast

Jsdirt

Posted
Posted

Confirms exactly what I figured about GM. I can't imagine how many millions of dollars the company loses by cutting corners. How in the hell can a company, in this day and age of computers, install the WRONG piston/ring combo in the wrong sized cylinder?? That is just moronic. Doesn't surprise me one bit after what I've seen with my own truck.

 

Was just under it the other day, checking the install of new step rails after some moron sideswiped me. Rockers already starting to rust. This thing has been garaged since day one, always washed and taken care of, plus I oil the undercarriage every fall. Guess I should start spraying the body with oil too. Unbelievable ... :banghead:

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Doug_Scott Senior Enthusiast

Doug_Scott

Posted
Posted

 

A couple of responses to this at Road and Track and Car and Driver...the first one seems like a crock, but it's interesting reading. The second one seems like a pretty good chance of truth...

 

Matt Kendrick · Computer Tech at Professional PC Solutions

The reason why GM has dropped there warranty down is because the Engines in certain models are drink 3 and 4 quarts of oil between oil changes. The issues are due to wrong piston and ring sizes installed in certain models and the issues are causing GM to have to Replace engines between 60 and 100k. This straight from the mouth of a personal friend and higher up at GM. It has nothing to do with Sales.
Also...
GM has this all figured out, I have been a GM service writer now for quite some time and most of their catastrophic power-train failures start to occur around the 80,000 mile mark i.e. 3.6L V6 timing chain failures, 5.3L V8 cylinder #1 burning oil and dropped value issues, 2.4L I4 oil consumption, 1.8L I4 turbo oil leaks, 2.0 I4 turbo cylinders cracking, and transmission failures in the Acadia, Enclaves & Traverses with their weak wave-plates to name a few. We replace or rebuild 3-6 engines a week due to these well known issues. Now by GM cutting the power-train warranty down to 60k that gives them a 20k cushion from when these problems start to occur so you can also expect little to no goodwill from GM either. Lack of quality as been GM's biggest downfall and its not getting any better. Might as well change their name to RECALL MOTORS!!

 

 

I would question the logic in the first part regarding why GM reduced the warranty coverage. If GM already knows the reason for the oil burning, then I find it very hard to believe that the engine they assemble tomorrow destined for assembly plant still has that fault. GM is not going to reduce the warranty based upon current or past issues. Common sense tells you that they take that information and put checks and balances in place to prevent that from happening again. They cannot retroactively reduce warranty.

 

I worked a number of years in Chrysler dealerships, and noticed something after about 18 months that my attitude was changing regarding Chrysler products. When I started I was actively looking at buying a new Chrysler product with my new discount. A year and half later, when I finally became able to purchase one, I would not consider a Chrysler vehicle any more. Reason was very simple, I never saw a good one. Every vehicle I saw in for repairs, both CP and warranty, were Chrysler vehicles. I would imagine that most people in the service part of a dealership has a very similar feeling. It may not be obvious to you why you feel that way, but think about it.

 

Once I moved on to a tire store environment, and started seeing all brands of vehicles, that feeling slowly went away. It is worth noting that for me it was the warranty repairs that made me think the cars were crap. Once out in the real world, there were no more warranty repairs to taint me. At that point I moved to being more model specific in my dislikes.

CapitalTruck Senior Enthusiast

CapitalTruck

Posted
Posted

What a really good point. In that role your whole frame of reference is skewed. Nobody comes into the service department to mention how great their car is. Excellent point. The first thing about rings seemed questionable. I just thought it was a nice conspiracy theory.

j-ten-ner Senior Enthusiast

j-ten-ner

Posted
Posted

 

...If GM already knows the reason for the oil burning, then I find it very hard to believe that the engine they assemble tomorrow destined for assembly plant still has that fault....

Well...I remember an incident about faulty ignition switches ...

 

so long

j-ten-ner

Jsdirt Senior Enthusiast

Jsdirt

Posted
Posted

The truth is today, ANYTHING you buy is junk, when compared to the days past. We might have better fueling, suspension, and modern conveniences nobody could have dreamed of 40 years ago, but by and large, all the little stuff has been cheaped out on (I.E. door hinges, latches, dash and seat material, switches, etc ...the stuff you have to deal with directly).

 

Just look at lawn tractors the next time your at Sears. Grab a fender and feel how flimsy it is. I fix these things all day long, and the #1 brand I see most often is Craftsman of the late 90's all through the '00's, followed by the box-store favorites (anything built by MTD or AYP, basically). These things ain't cheap either. None have grease fittings on the deck spindles, or the front axle pivot. Throwaway tractors, I call them. We had a Craftsman lawn tractor in the early 80's that had over 600 HARD hours on it, and just a few years ago was still running great! We used it as a tractor - never mowed with it. It was always hauling wood out of the rocky, rooted New England woods every winter for nearly 20 years! Never missed a beat. No idea where it is now, but I'm sure it's still intact. That was a very well built machine. Take a look on Craigslist (if you live where big lawns are everywhere) - look at how many relatively new lawn tractors are on there for parts, or selling for cheap because they're just totally worn out ... then look at how many 60's, 70's, & 80's lawn tractors there are still running and mowing.

 

Cars are no different. Used to be a time when door hinges, handles and latches lasted the life of the vehicle ... which in those days (we're now finding) was at least 30 years. Speaking of Chrysler products, I sat in my buddy's '67 Belvedere, and was amazed at how solid the doors looked, felt, and operated. That almost 5-decade-old door closed with more precision and smoothness than my 8 year old truck that only has 76k miles! "Cheap" is the name of the game today.

 

The last good car of any brand rolled off the assembly line for the 1972 model year. Been all downhill since. Might have been basic and sparse on options, but at least they WORKED, and could be fixed for next to nothing with a little effort and VERY LITTLE of your time. I'd trade the modern conveniences any day for an old, bouncy, hot truck that starts right up every single day, and will not leave me on the side of the road for dead, so long as all the fluids are topped off, hose clamps are tight, and hoses are in good condition .. but that's just me.

Doug_Scott Senior Enthusiast

Doug_Scott

Posted
Posted

Well...I remember an incident about faulty ignition switches ...

 

so long

j-ten-ner

 

The actual point being made was that GM is not cutting the warranty instead of fixing the issue.

 

The really scary part of ignition switch recall is that they missed the one thing that should have been done. Since the first car was assembled every one made has had the capability to shut off at high speed. There are literally hundreds of causes of an engine to stop running at any time. New drivers have never been taught what to expect when that happens. They were never shown how to react to it. Those that died when their cars shut off at highway speed did not die due to the engine stopping and air bag not deploying. They died because they did not know what to do, and panicked.

 

With any luck, manufacturers that are now using electric power assisted steering will keep the power steering activated until a door is opened, or the key is turned to the lock position. Same for air bag deployment. They may also want to look into using a similar system for power brakes that is being used on electric power assist steering, or design a brake booster than does not inhibit brake application in low vacuum situations, like engine not running. The defective ignition switches have brought more issues to the foreground than the media realizes or even understands.

MikeNH Senior Enthusiast

MikeNH

Posted
Posted

The truth is today, ANYTHING you buy is junk, when compared to the days past. We might have better fueling, suspension, and modern conveniences nobody could have dreamed of 40 years ago, but by and large, all the little stuff has been cheaped out on (I.E. door hinges, latches, dash and seat material, switches, etc ...the stuff you have to deal with directly).

 

Just look at lawn tractors the next time your at Sears. Grab a fender and feel how flimsy it is. I fix these things all day long, and the #1 brand I see most often is Craftsman of the late 90's all through the '00's, followed by the box-store favorites (anything built by MTD or AYP, basically). These things ain't cheap either. None have grease fittings on the deck spindles, or the front axle pivot. Throwaway tractors, I call them. We had a Craftsman lawn tractor in the early 80's that had over 600 HARD hours on it, and just a few years ago was still running great! We used it as a tractor - never mowed with it. It was always hauling wood out of the rocky, rooted New England woods every winter for nearly 20 years! Never missed a beat. No idea where it is now, but I'm sure it's still intact. That was a very well built machine. Take a look on Craigslist (if you live where big lawns are everywhere) - look at how many relatively new lawn tractors are on there for parts, or selling for cheap because they're just totally worn out ... then look at how many 60's, 70's, & 80's lawn tractors there are still running and mowing.

 

Cars are no different. Used to be a time when door hinges, handles and latches lasted the life of the vehicle ... which in those days (we're now finding) was at least 30 years. Speaking of Chrysler products, I sat in my buddy's '67 Belvedere, and was amazed at how solid the doors looked, felt, and operated. That almost 5-decade-old door closed with more precision and smoothness than my 8 year old truck that only has 76k miles! "Cheap" is the name of the game today.

 

The last good car of any brand rolled off the assembly line for the 1972 model year. Been all downhill since. Might have been basic and sparse on options, but at least they WORKED, and could be fixed for next to nothing with a little effort and VERY LITTLE of your time. I'd trade the modern conveniences any day for an old, bouncy, hot truck that starts right up every single day, and will not leave me on the side of the road for dead, so long as all the fluids are topped off, hose clamps are tight, and hoses are in good condition .. but that's just me.

 

 

Dude you go on and on and on about how lousy new stuff is constantly but I need to ask- have you every driven an older vehicle? They were pieces of shit.

 

They rotted out, leaked everything, prior to EFI cabs would be fussy if you took a trip to the mountains or in temperature swings. They didn't steer or stop for shit, they weren't safe in collisions and got horrible fuel economy.

kstruckcountry Senior Enthusiast

kstruckcountry

Posted
Posted

 

The actual point being made was that GM is not cutting the warranty instead of fixing the issue.

 

The really scary part of ignition switch recall is that they missed the one thing that should have been done. Since the first car was assembled every one made has had the capability to shut off at high speed. There are literally hundreds of causes of an engine to stop running at any time. New drivers have never been taught what to expect when that happens. They were never shown how to react to it. Those that died when their cars shut off at highway speed did not die due to the engine stopping and air bag not deploying. They died because they did not know what to do, and panicked.

 

With any luck, manufacturers that are now using electric power assisted steering will keep the power steering activated until a door is opened, or the key is turned to the lock position. Same for air bag deployment. They may also want to look into using a similar system for power brakes that is being used on electric power assist steering, or design a brake booster than does not inhibit brake application in low vacuum situations, like engine not running. The defective ignition switches have brought more issues to the foreground than the media realizes or even understands.

I think 2 people were killed "by" the faulty ignition switches. I think both of them were impaired (high/drunk)?

 

I think the earlier GMT800s had a "backup" vacuum pump to boost the brakes, I think they decided it was unnecessary and cut it.

 

People can't change their own tires, you really expect them to think about what they'd do if something went wrong?

kstruckcountry Senior Enthusiast

kstruckcountry

Posted
Posted

Dude you go on and on and on about how lousy new stuff is constantly but I need to ask- have you every driven an older vehicle? They were pieces of shit.

 

They rotted out, leaked everything, prior to EFI cabs would be fussy if you took a trip to the mountains or in temperature swings. They didn't steer or stop for shit, they weren't safe in collisions and got horrible fuel economy.

Not to mention, holy vapor lock!!!
waumo1 Enthusiast

waumo1

Posted
Posted

Dude you go on and on and on about how lousy new stuff is constantly but I need to ask- have you every driven an older vehicle? They were pieces of shit.

 

They rotted out, leaked everything, prior to EFI cabs would be fussy if you took a trip to the mountains or in temperature swings. They didn't steer or stop for shit, they weren't safe in collisions and got horrible fuel economy.

I drove 1969 and 70 Pontiacs for 25 years (and still have one) and did not have any of the horrible experience you are stating. Not arguing that the new vehicles have some great qualities over the old ones but I didn't suffer a bit when driving older cars. Gas mileage was somewhat worse but after all I was driving a 428HO with a lead foot!

KARNUT Senior Enthusiast

KARNUT

Posted
Posted

Me too, I always had a stock factory toy. The last one was a 65 elcamino 4 speed 327 factory air gem. I only drove it early in the mornings it took about 30 more feet to stop it then the newer cars. My brother in law still has his first car 69 firebird drum brakes, same thing fun to drive many years ago not now with out updates. You can't drive those old cars with out at least updating the brakes. I don't play with the old stuff anymore. What's the point, my wife DD has more hp and road manners than most of the performance cars 10 20 30 years ago. My truck has more HP than my 70 Chevelle SS 396, the holy grail of hod rods back in the day. It drove like a school bus.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doug_Scott Senior Enthusiast

Doug_Scott

Posted
Posted

Those that are sure that older is better, how many have driven those older vehicles the way they were built and equipped? Be interested in hearing how many actually drove on bias ply or belted tires. They were fine if that was all you knew, but, put someone in the car with bias ply tires than has only ever driven radials and see how far they get before stopping saying there is something reallly wrong with the front end. The car is all over the road.

Most make fun of the older movies where the driver is constantly sawing the wheel. You think they do it only for effect, but, it is mostly the way it was back then with bias ply tires.

If you want a real scary ride, put some bias ply tires on a newer car and take it out on the highway. Take a change of shorts though.

Jsdirt Senior Enthusiast

Jsdirt

Posted
Posted

Modern stuff on an old car is the only way to go. As long as there's no damn electronics in the component, that is. HEI is about as high tech as I want to go with ignition, but points are fine with me. Work just fine in my '74 RD350 2-stroke.

 

RD350%20maintenance%20timing%20points%20

 

Dude you go on and on and on about how lousy new stuff is constantly but I need to ask- have you every driven an older vehicle? They were pieces of shit.

They rotted out, leaked everything, prior to EFI cabs would be fussy if you took a trip to the mountains or in temperature swings. They didn't steer or stop for shit, they weren't safe in collisions and got horrible fuel economy.

Don't know what planet you lived on, but every single one of my older cars were solid, dependable. powerful, well handling vehicles. Just polygraphite front bushings, and I'd hang with ANY new car around offramps. My '72 El Camino was faithful for 11 years. Drove the thing from Phoenix, AZ to Livermore, CA TWICE, all around AZ from Mexico to UT, then from Livermore to Central MA pulling a U-haul trailer with a motorcycle, tools, and everything else I owned at the time. Other than using a case of oil in 3200 miles, the trip was just as comfortable as it was in my Silverado in '13. A crate motor and that problem goes away.

 

Rust, yeah ... that was an issue - that's why we oiled all our cars, and I carry on the tradition today. It's not the be-all, end-all, but better than letting it disintegrate.

 

Tell me how great your truck is in 30 years.

MikeNH Senior Enthusiast

MikeNH

Posted
Posted

Hah I'd never keep anything for 30 years. You know as well as I do that living in the north nothing will survive 30 years of winters.

Jsdirt Senior Enthusiast

Jsdirt

Posted
Posted

And the endless electronics on these things won't make it HALF that long.

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