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Zane

Would you buy an electric Chevy today? What about an electric GMC?

Are you ready to buy an electric truck?  

1,015 members have voted

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Just imagine the filth and contaminants that flow from New York City streets into the Hudson River and surrounding waterways. Maybe that’s why the river is continuously brown.


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22 hours ago, Likarok said:

The thing that I don't understand is that being from a cold climate area they tell us that during the supper hours to not turn on stoves, dryers, dishwashers etc or it may cause a brown out. How in the hell are we going to have streets of electric cars and trucks plugged in. At least currently (sorry Bad pun) we don't have the infrastructure to support electrics. Just what we need is more ugly wind mills and power towers running all over the damn place!

Wind mills decimate bird populations and renders useless enormous tracts of land but do gooders won't talk about that.

17 hours ago, Bob2C said:

Those people don’t care about that. All they see is their car produces zero emissions and they are better than everyone else.

I laugh seeing these carbon stats now with car reviews, could care less.  

17 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

No one is better than anyone else, some have more but that doesn’t make them better.

 

That is not true with the adherents of the religion of environmentalism.  Sinners like me are to be scorned and punished while they are lauded for driving their Prius and caring more than I do about their "woke" agenda.  Never forget that this is a political movement, not conservation.

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Someone riddle me this. Why are the practical electrics such UGLY cars. Is it cheaper to make an UGLY car/truck? 

Because one of the goals of communism is to make art ugly and offensive!  LOL

13 minutes ago, Bob2C said:

Just imagine the filth and contaminants that flow from New York City streets into the Hudson River and surrounding waterways. Maybe that’s why the river is continuously brown. 

Mostly tannin in the water, with a dash of Italian mobsters who got out of line!

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Mostly tannin in the water, with a dash of Italian mobsters who got out of line!


And the years the GM plant operated on the banks of the Hudson dumping everything and anything into the water.


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So its ok to take a crap on the sidewalk, but not to drive a vehicle with an IC engine. Cool got it.

 

spacer.png

Edited by oak 1971
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3 hours ago, Bob2C said:

And the years the GM plant operated on the banks of the Hudson dumping everything and anything into the water.

Did they really?  What about Grumman and the millions of residents over the previous four hundred years?  

 

I once owned property that a computer company poured chemicals right into the ground.  After a few years their chemicals were gone from the soil but under that, where the government made us drill test holes, the port and oil companies nearby oil leaked into the groundwater and we got blamed for it.  Eventually we won but it was all bogus.  It was wrong for the computer company and port to pollute but the cleanup was a huge moneymaker using force and junk science for the lawyers and politicians and government workers while nature naturally cleaned it all up.

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Did they really?  What about Grumman and the millions of residents over the previous four hundred years?  
 
I once owned property that a computer company poured chemicals right into the ground.  After a few years their chemicals were gone from the soil but under that, where the government made us drill test holes, the port and oil companies nearby oil leaked into the groundwater and we got blamed for it.  Eventually we won but it was all bogus.  It was wrong for the computer company and port to pollute but the cleanup was a huge moneymaker using force and junk science for the lawyers and politicians and government workers while nature naturally cleaned it all up.



Yep. Plant started operation in 1914. Now it’s a mixed use sited. Residential and commercial. No way would I live there but the land was too valuable just to sit empty.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Tarrytown_Assembly





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I love forums. You guys are a riot.

 

To answer the OP's question, and because I feel everyone is entitled to my opinion (that's a joke), I would consider an electric vehicle when the initial cost, operating cost, performance, and maintenance matches or exceeds my favorite gasoline powered vehicles. That means a consistent 400 -500 miles on a tank (big deal out here in flyover zone), the vehicle cost's as much to purchase and maintain, and the regeneration of my range is comparable to that of gasoline. It's hard to beat a 5 minute fuel stop. VERY hard. And I think that will be a snag for many people. 

 

Internal combustion can be a bit dirty. The oil has to be drilled for (think of the pickups and semi trucks going to and from the rig site), transported (more semis and/or tanker cars in a train, or pipeline that is constructed by bulldozers and loaders and more semis), then refined, transported again (more semis and tanker cars) and then it gets to you. 

 

On the flip side, electricity...can be equally dirty. Coal mining involves digging it up (giant dump trucks and draglines) and burning it or hauling it to the power plant (think 100-130 car trains with big SD70ACe and ES44AC locomotives, 5 or 6 of em). Once the coal has provided electricity it travels over power lines (constructed by bulldozers and cranes and semis) to the local power station, and then distributed to you. Keep in mind all this equipment is maintained by guys in yet more trucks, so that adds to the 'environmental cost'. 

 

Natural gas isn't much different from oil in the methods to obtain it, though I think transportation is somewhat different. Instead of trains, it goes by pipeline or tanker truck. 

 

Let's not forget the electric cars need lithium for the batteries, which involves mining (more giant dump trucks and draglines), transportation to a refining facility (semis or trains), refining, then transportation to the batter factory (more semis yet again). That and old/disposed batteries create significant environmental hazards if not properly disposed. Lithium, in milligram doses, is used for psychiatric treatment. Imagine giant batteries full and their effect on the environment. Perhaps safer than oil and coolant and transmission fluid, though not by much. 

 

Hydroelectric power is cleaner in generation, but remember the amount of concrete, hauled by cement mixers, and other materials transported by semi truck, as well as all the earth-moving equipment to construct the mine. 

 

Wind power is cleaner in generation as well, but again trains and semis and giant cranes are all involved in transporting the wind mill to its spot on the farm. That's a lot of carbon emissions. 

 

New tech is fine and dandy, but it should be pursued because it is an improvement over previous technology, not because it's trendy or the powers that be are convinced it is.

 

Gasoline is incredibly energy dense, and because of that it has been the choice of fuels for well over 100 years. We did the whole gas or electric thing in the early 1900s, and even included steam for kicks and giggles. Gasoline won because its energy content is unbeatable. While electric power should get attention, how about continuing to refine and improve the internal combustion engine? We've made some incredible progress over the past century. I bet we can make even more in the next decade alone. 

 

</rant>

Edited by CadillacLuke24
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On 10/28/2019 at 12:01 AM, CadillacLuke24 said:

I love forums. You guys are a riot.

 

To answer the OP's question, and because I feel everyone is entitled to my opinion (that's a joke), I would consider an electric vehicle when the initial cost, operating cost, performance, and maintenance matches or exceeds my favorite gasoline powered vehicles. That means a consistent 400 -500 miles on a tank (big deal out here in flyover zone), the vehicle cost's as much to purchase and maintain, and the regeneration of my range is comparable to that of gasoline. It's hard to beat a 5 minute fuel stop. VERY hard. And I think that will be a snag for many people. 

 

Internal combustion can be a bit dirty. The oil has to be drilled for (think of the pickups and semi trucks going to and from the rig site), transported (more semis and/or tanker cars in a train, or pipeline that is constructed by bulldozers and loaders and more semis), then refined, transported again (more semis and tanker cars) and then it gets to you. 

 

On the flip side, electricity...can be equally dirty. Coal mining involves digging it up (giant dump trucks and draglines) and burning it or hauling it to the power plant (think 100-130 car trains with big SD70ACe and ES44AC locomotives, 5 or 6 of em). Once the coal has provided electricity it travels over power lines (constructed by bulldozers and cranes and semis) to the local power station, and then distributed to you. Keep in mind all this equipment is maintained by guys in yet more trucks, so that adds to the 'environmental cost'. 

 

Natural gas isn't much different from oil in the methods to obtain it, though I think transportation is somewhat different. Instead of trains, it goes by pipeline or tanker truck. 

 

Let's not forget the electric cars need lithium for the batteries, which involves mining (more giant dump trucks and draglines), transportation to a refining facility (semis or trains), refining, then transportation to the batter factory (more semis yet again). That and old/disposed batteries create significant environmental hazards if not properly disposed. Lithium, in milligram doses, is used for psychiatric treatment. Imagine giant batteries full and their effect on the environment. Perhaps safer than oil and coolant and transmission fluid, though not by much. 

 

Hydroelectric power is cleaner in generation, but remember the amount of concrete, hauled by cement mixers, and other materials transported by semi truck, as well as all the earth-moving equipment to construct the mine. 

 

Wind power is cleaner in generation as well, but again trains and semis and giant cranes are all involved in transporting the wind mill to its spot on the farm. That's a lot of carbon emissions. 

 

New tech is fine and dandy, but it should be pursued because it is an improvement over previous technology, not because it's trendy or the powers that be are convinced it is.

 

Gasoline is incredibly energy dense, and because of that it has been the choice of fuels for well over 100 years. We did the whole gas or electric thing in the early 1900s, and even included steam for kicks and giggles. Gasoline won because its energy content is unbeatable. While electric power should get attention, how about continuing to refine and improve the internal combustion engine? We've made some incredible progress over the past century. I bet we can make even more in the next decade alone. 

 

</rant>

/thread

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I have three problems with electric vehicles: 

 

1. 50% of our electricity here is still generated by coal with no sign of that ever changing. 

2. I like to go out to my family's lake lot to go camping for several days at a time. That's about 100 miles of driving one way with no power at the other end to recharge the battery. So I'd want to be confident that I could get at least 250-300 miles on a charge while towing a decent size travel trailer. I'm sure the technology will eventually get there but it doesn't sound like it's possible now. 

3. Lithium for the batteries is strip mined. Is that really better for the environment than truck and shovel mining oil sands? 

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On 10/27/2019 at 1:48 PM, swathdiver said:

It also bubbles up right out of the sea floor, in fact more of it enters the environment naturally than by man.  So what?  It's natural, not a pollutant.

 

Growing up in Fort Lauderdale, the beaches used to have patches a tar (oil) that would get our feet all dirty while walking the beach but this did not affect sea life offshore.  However, it was near the mouths of the inlets where I routinely saw fish with lesions and growths and was told at the time that this was caused by lawn fertilizers.  They've lied so much I don't believe anything they say anymore without investigating it for myself.

Similar to how oil runs naturally into the ironically named Clearwater river in northern Alberta. 

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On 10/25/2019 at 4:29 PM, TXGREEK said:


Not even if it outperforms your current vehicle in 0-70 braking, handling and best of all gets 500 miles between each charge?

 

As I said, I have zero interest in an electric or Hybrid vehicles. 

A- Currently, anything that been mass produced, i find them to be fugly imo.

B- I like to work on my vehicles, Electric & Hybrids are for the most part are meant for shop repairs only. i dont know about you, but i dont like shops having me by the balls for a repair bill because i cant do by myself.

C- I like being able to go anywhere for parts, currently not feasible w/ electrics/hybrids. I do alot of out-of-state trips & i dont see the ease of part availability anytime soon.

D- Most newer vehicles  dont come w/ a spare tire or sometimes lacking a trunkwell to add one. I dont want to be a hostage on the side of the road out of town @ 2am waiting on a tow truck. I have actually passed on the purchase of perfectly good vehicles because of this.

D- Im currently looking to retire my cclb, i have zero interest in current generation, either way, the current & k2xx do not offer a comperable replacement. i want a 1500 cclb, just offered, if i want a cclb, i have to get a 25/3500, which due to their specs classify them as a commercial vehicles, which i dont want the commercial bills that come w/ it. So im going to forced into a cc std bed w/ a bed extender. not only that, but the 6.0L in the 2500 gets worse mpg than my 498k mi cclb.

F- Most importantly, Life is too short to drive a boring uncomfortable vehicle.



Sent from Above

 

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12 hours ago, Mars2878 said:

As I said, I have zero interest in an electric or Hybrid vehicles. 

A- Currently, anything that been mass produced, i find them to be fugly imo.

That's true

B- I like to work on my vehicles, Electric & Hybrids are for the most part are meant for shop repairs only. i dont know about you, but i dont like shops having me by the balls for a repair bill because i cant do by myself.

I think that we'd have to keep an oldie in the drive way to work on. The electric vehicles will have almost no maintenance.

C- I like being able to go anywhere for parts, currently not feasible w/ electrics/hybrids. I do alot of out-of-state trips & i dont see the ease of part availability anytime soon.

D- Most newer vehicles  dont come w/ a spare tire or sometimes lacking a trunkwell to add one. I dont want to be a hostage on the side of the road out of town @ 2am waiting on a tow truck. I have actually passed on the purchase of perfectly good vehicles because of this.

What vehicles come w/o a spare tire? 😯

D- Im currently looking to retire my cclb, i have zero interest in current generation, either way, the current & k2xx do not offer a comperable replacement. i want a 1500 cclb, just offered, if i want a cclb, i have to get a 25/3500, which due to their specs classify them as a commercial vehicles, which i dont want the commercial bills that come w/ it. So im going to forced into a cc std bed w/ a bed extender. not only that, but the 6.0L in the 2500 gets worse mpg than my 498k mi cclb.

F- Most importantly, Life is too short to drive a boring uncomfortable vehicle

I think that electric vehicles are far from boring and uncomfortable.

5 seconds or less 0-60 in a truck? That's not boring.

so long

j-ten-ner

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2 hours ago, j-ten-ner said:

so long

j-ten-ner

A lot of cars apparently come w/o a spare tire, I've heard some just give you a can of fix a flat.  Weight and $$ savings I guess?  I've never owned a vehicle that could use a donut even so what do I know?

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9 hours ago, j-ten-ner said:

so long

j-ten-ner

 

from a few yrs ago, not the best article but you get the jist.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/10/19/why-so-many-automakers-ditching-spare-tires/777871001/

 

 

my mother-in-law has a 12 Elantra while my sister-in-law has a 14 Elantra or vise versa (both bought new), i wont hold it against them.

we didnt know until one of them got a flat, just a styrofoam wedge w/ a can of fix-a-flat, i drove 2 towns over to swap out the 2 flats to find out that both cars didnt have a spare, we were forced to call aaa @ that point.  

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I own a bolt and had a volt, so I have considerable experience with EVs.

Electric trucks, for them to be useful doing truck things, would need enormous battery packs. Like 180 kWh or larger and those would be prohibitively expensive with Li cells . So I voted yes I would buy one but put it out 10 years as battery costs would have to be slashed to make it affordable. Probably will need a .major breakthrough in battery chemistry and who know when or if that happens.

Till then, mild hybrid or e-assist systems on gassers make sense IMO.

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